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Will I lose my retirement visa if I leave Thailand for 6 months without doing 90-day reporting?
Retirement Visa90-Day ReportingUK Pension RulesExpatriate IssuesThai ImmigrationVisa RegulationsRe-Entry PermitsPension Freezing
Aug 14, 2024
2 years ago
David *******
ORIGINAL POSTERHi Guys, I currently have a retirement visa and due to the UK pension rules if I just stay in Thailand my state pension is frozen (I arrived 3 months ago! The question I would like to ask is if I go back to the UK for 6 months and wouldn't be able to do the 90 day reporting would I lose my visa? Which I would like to keep!
Many thanks, David
Many thanks, David
TLDR : Answer Summary
David, who currently holds a retirement visa in Thailand, inquired about the implications of leaving Thailand for 6 months on his visa status, particularly concerning the 90-day reporting requirement while managing his UK pension to prevent it from being frozen. Community members clarified that the 90-day reporting is only necessary for those residing in Thailand for 90 consecutive days, and since he will be leaving, he won't need to report. They emphasized the importance of securing a re-entry permit before departing to maintain his visa status, and discussed the complexities surrounding his UK pension, indicating it would be frozen (i.e., no increases) while he resides in Thailand.
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Stuart ***********
Off topic re the original question / post but relevant to the UK pension increase question. The UK, and Thailand, have treaties in place with various countries that permit people of pensionable age and receive increases. Unfortunately there is no arrangement between the UK and Thailand. If a UK citizen, who is eligible for a state pension, lives outside the UK for more than 180 days each year, this triggers an overseas eligibility check. If the person lives in a country, such as The Philippines, where a treaty is in place to allow them to receive any statutory increase in the pension, then the person will continue to enjoy the same state pension as someone who remained in the UK. Living in Thailand for no more than 180 days each year, and either returning to the UK for the remainder or sharing the remaining time between countries that have a treaty in place (which doesn't necessarily need to include the UK) that has a 'pension equivalence' treaty (quoted words are mine) would allow you to receive any annual increase in state pension.
Stuart ***********
It's a faff, but diligent record keeping by you would be needed in case DWP requested it. Separately, if you live outside the UK, and in another state, for more than (I think) 180 days then certain 'tax residency' rules would be triggered which may affect how or where you may need to file an annual personal tax report.
Reply to
Stuart ***********
Reply
Sally *******
They want you to spend your pension in the uk that's why.
Neil ********
Check it out but believe if you come back say every few years and spend time back in Blighty you can have it adjusted back so as it’s only £1200 I guess every 3 years as the flight will absorb any benefit.
Or as above you don’t tell them you have moved out
Or as above you don’t tell them you have moved out
Neil ********
Looks like it changed.
So if you go to a country where your pension would be frozen again. You would revert back to your frozen pension amount. You lose the increase because you are no longer living in the UK.
So if you go to a country where your pension would be frozen again. You would revert back to your frozen pension amount. You lose the increase because you are no longer living in the UK.
Reply to
Neil ********
Reply
David *******
ORIGINAL POSTERI do apologize, I meant to say the increase is frozen!
Dave *********
Fly from Dublin
Lena *******
Dave Headlam Seems like a lot of work. I mean, If you were trying to escape a serious criminal charge, this sounds like a good plan. 😃
Dave *********
@Lena ******
yes but then you gain in the long runReply to
Dave *********
Reply
Lena *******
We are moving to Thailand from Australia. Husband won't get increases. They all do it.
Nick *******
Your UK pension will Not be frozen. You will just not get any pension increases if you are living in Thailand.
John ********
@Nick ******
Not be frozen, but you just won't get any increases, 🤔 does that mean it has thawed, but you still won't get the annual increase 🧐 😂 😂 😂John **********
@Nick ******
isn't that the same thing? It will be frozen at the level you leave the UK or reach state pension age, whichever is laterJohn ********
@John *********
correct johnReply to
John ********
Reply
William ******
@Nick ******
you are correct.Reply to
William ******
Reply
Ian *********
Why will your UK srate pension be frozen?!
John **********
@Ian ********
because pensioners are pretty low on the UK government list of priorities and they do what they can to avoid giving them moneyDamo ***********
@Ian ********
Did you realise this guy was asking a question? Why are you side-tracking and hi-jacking this thread? You are free to go create a new thread based on your queries.Ian *********
@Damo **********
calm down! ;-)Damo ***********
@Ian ********
😳🤦🏼♂️🤷🏽♂️ ok!Reply to
Damo ***********
Reply
Reply to
Barry **********
Reply
Hathaway *************
Maybe a dumb thread but I just got shivers reading this thread, when you say "frozen" you mean held at current value with no increases don't you, not held and not payed?
Praps I was dumb but I DID inform HMRC I was lea ing the country but I do still hold a postal address in UK that they are aware of.
Praps I was dumb but I DID inform HMRC I was lea ing the country but I do still hold a postal address in UK that they are aware of.
Roy ******
@Hathaway ************
don't think it matters I didn't inform UK address still got mine frozenHathaway *************
@Roy *****
but does the term "frozen" mean DENIED or restricted to current value only. No further rises?John **********
@Hathaway ************
frozen means no increases from retirement age or leaving the UK whichever is laterRoy ******
@Hathaway ************
mine is the same no rises not denied as long as I live here stays the same I know of no way round itReply to
Roy ******
Reply
Mark *******
You can still claim it but your year increase is frozen ….. as long as you’ve paid enough national insurance.  Apparently😀
David *******
ORIGINAL POSTERThanks for the info.
John ********
There's loads of pensioners I believe living overseas and because of the frozen pension discrimination they don't tell the DWP they are moving and use relatives addresses in the UK as their permanent place of abode, therefore getting the pension increase every year. You have to live in the UK for at least 181 days to be classed as resident, but no one only you know if you fulfill that requirement. The frozen pension debacle is unjust to put it mildly. I have been complaining for years to my MPs about this but successive Governments just bury their heads in the sand when you try get this discrimination cancelled. I've had two different MPs after the last election. Emailed both of them on this, but both not interested, only interested in their own selfish agendas and both of them were/are Liebour MPs. You'd of thought they'd be more in touch with the immorality of this discrimination, but as with most MPs the only time they're interested in voters is before an election, after that as far as they are concerned to can swivel.
Michael *******
@John *******
the whole thing is a giant ponzi scheme which will hit the buffers as working population declines along with NI contributions, so either increase borrowing to subsidise,raise NI or raise retirement age which party will be left with that giant turdJohn **********
@John *******
my previous MP was very supportive and responsive. Unfortunately he got replaced by a LibDem who hasn't bothered responding to either of the emails I sent on the subject.John ********
@John *********
I wonder John how many expats on frozen pensions contact MPs? I'm in the UK with intetions of returning to see my days out in Thailand, but I keep on at my MP now and the previous one before the G.E. here. Apparently there are some MPs who are against the frozen pension debacle, but from what I gather it's more the hierarchy of civil servants that keep blocking any new discussions on this discrimination going forward. Have to keep grinding away at the politicians.John **********
@John *******
civil servants just do as their told. I pester my MP too. Just starting on the new one, my previous one was sympatheticJohn ********
@John *********
Civil servants do as their told 😂 John I don't know if you watch all or any of the UK news channels. Before the election there was people on TV who were commenting that UK government makes the laws, but civil servants administer them as THEY want too. I had an email conversation through my previous MP about frozen pensions and also the change in the rule about how long you can go out of the UK without forfeiting any benefits, IE., pension credit and or any other benefits you receive. In 2013 it was 13 weeks inclusive. By 2018 they'd reduced it to 4 weeks. An official at the DWP name of Guy Oppenmer who was at the head of the civil service hierarchy, said the frozen pension and change to periods outside the UK are decided by the DWP, hence civil servantsJohn **********
@John *******
guy opperman was a cabinet minister not a civil servantJohn ********
@John *********
He was a junior minister at the DWP when I had dealings with him. Or so I was informed.John **********
@John *******
whatever. Not a civil servantReply to
John **********
Reply
Wayne ******
@John *******
liebor are thievesKen ***********
@Wayne *****
and the Tories ?Reply to
Ken ***********
Reply
Nigel ***********
@John *******
yes I agree,but the mp pensions always get a increase and vote this increase for themselves. Not right.Jenny ******
@John *******
Australians: You guys get paid when you're out of the country?The moment our passport pings at an Immigration exit point, all government payments stop until we ping back into the country again.
It is possible to get permission to go overseas for two weeks on some pensions and payments won't be interrupted, but in general government benefits are only for people who are onshore in the country. Sigh.
Tracey ********
@Jenny *****
make your pensions transportable. Just have to be in aus 2 years before applying for age pension or two years after. I know a few people that get aus age pension and live in thailand.John ********
@Jenny *****
Well Jenny I don't know about in Australia, but in the UK your State pension isn't a benefit, it's a right that you paid into, in my case for 42 years.Ian ***********
@John *******
I'm afraid your wrong, apparently it is classed as a benefit in the UK, it's recently been clarified during the rumours that Labour are considering means testing it. Google it you'll see.John ********
@Ian **********
The state pension should be seen as a right not a benefit because comparing it to welfare payments "drives pensioners up the wall", a minister has said. You can call it whatever you want. If you want to call it a benefit, well it is 40+ years of deductions from your, as in my case 42 years of compulsory deductions from my salary. Using the word benefit for state pension should be worded as "Payments deductible to benefit you after retirement".Ian ***********
@John *******
Not really bud, what you pay in has no relation to what you can possibly get out (say you live until 95 etc ) there is no fund invested in the stock market its money taken directly from the tax payer each week, I don't like it anymore than you, but the fact is by law it's classed as a benefit. A labour advisor close to Rachel Reeves (Edward Troup, ex HMRC big wig ) one of his quotes was " the codgers have got all the money and they need to be paying more" has recommended that access to the old age pension should be means tested.
John ********
@Ian **********
Whoever this retard Reeves Edward Troup, if that is his three handle name, was more than likely born with a silver spoon in his mouth, just another selfish so in so.John ********
By the way, you say it's paid for by the taxpayer. Well when I worked and paid N.I & income tax, people of my age never winged about pensioners getting state pension only the selfish fuckers today in this selfish fuckt up country, who haven't got a brain cell between them and don't realise that when they retire after paying contributions for 33 years, then they'll draw state pensions from taxes taken after they retire. It's an ongoing system for all unless you live in the most selfish country on the planet the USA. Dog eat dog comes to mind.
John ********
@Ian **********
In that case when someone starts work they should have to choice to pay into the N.I contributions of not and go private. If I and the likes of all pensioners have deductions compulsory from their salaries for, well now I believe it is only 33 years, not the 44 people of my age had to pay into. The whole scheme is a rip off. If you retired after 2016 you get nearly £2,000 more per year than anyone who retired before 2016. Not difficult to understand why people fiddle the system.John ********
@Ian **********
You've been watching too much media propaganda. Here in the UK your State pension IS NOT OFFICIALLY A BENEFIT. It's a government insurance policy that you have compulsory paid into throughout your working life. So your analogy then private pensions, which is the same only you pay into private pensions schemes as opposed to a government pension scheme, then are a benefit.Ian ***********
@John *******
Not only are you wrong , you're wrong at the top of your voice.Reply to
Ian ***********
Reply
David ********
@John *******
if found out they will take any overpayment from your pension.William ******
@David *******
legalised theft really.John ********
@David *******
Fat chance of that.David ********
@John *******
they will just deduct it.David ********
@John *******
I just had letter stating I owe for over payment of child tax credit in 2003Reply to
David ********
Reply
Stuart ***********
Am I missing something here, apologies if this is a dumb point.
The annual increase is likely to be around 2.5% a year or about £275. The flight back to the UK will likely be about 4 times that amount and then you need to live in UK for 6 months at a much higher cost of living.
I realise the amounts multiply each year, but even so, is it not worth staying in Thailand for several years before a 6 month stint in the UK?
The annual increase is likely to be around 2.5% a year or about £275. The flight back to the UK will likely be about 4 times that amount and then you need to live in UK for 6 months at a much higher cost of living.
I realise the amounts multiply each year, but even so, is it not worth staying in Thailand for several years before a 6 month stint in the UK?
Eddy ********
@Stuart **********
your pension is increased on the first day back,you must then remain in the U.K. for 2 yrs.If you return to Thailand within the 2 yrs and inform the U.K government, then your pension will revert to that before you returned.
Rok ********
@Stuart **********
this year the uplift was 10.1%: higher of Inflation RPI, wage inflation or 2.5%. Do not disregard cumulative effect of the annual increases.Reply to
Rok ********
Reply
Robert *****
David. How does the UK government know you live in Thailand..?
Michael *******
They can track your movements easily - bioemetrics as you enter and leave the country…….similar to tax, back payments and penalties are severe for fraud….but many will try and probably claim the winter fuel allowance as well….😊
Lynnette *******
@Michael ******
you don't " claim" the winter fuel allowance. It's an automatic payment. But it's now only issued to those on pension credit benefit.Andy **********
@Lynnette ******
the new UK government, stopped winter fuel payments for pensioners, apart from people on certain benefits.Lynnette *******
@Andy *********
I know what happened with winter fuel payments.Michael *******
@Lynnette ******
correct, however if you fail to disclose that your are not resident it will paid and that will result in penaltiesReply to
Michael *******
Reply
John **********
@Robert ****
previously they probably didn't but Thailand recently signed up to CRS so if they don't yet know they will soonPhil ********
@Robert ****
so that is why they know exactly how many people are in this country illegally?The wonderful border control can produce a list of everyone that came in and didn’t leave???
And tells them the UK Pensioners that left and didn’t come back in??
David ********
@Robert ****
gov knows when you leave and enter ukAndy **********
@David *******
read the comments from an ex-border force officer, scan passport coming in, not going out, if you're not a wanted criminal, or of any interest to the authorities, it seems nobody takes any notice.Jeff *******
@David *******
no they don’t. Unlike the old wives tale your passport doesn’t digitally hold that information. Which is also why they can’t accurately tell you immigration numbers because they don’t know who’s left!Reply to
Jeff *******
Reply
Angus *********
Many folk initially base in the phillipines- apparently there is an agreement in place - UK pensions not frozen. Then they move to Thailand
Phil ********
@Angus ********
True. Your UK pension is NOT frozen if you reside in the Philippines. I would suggest a visit there and talk to some solicitors with experience if this matter…..Colin *******
@Phil *******
do consider that Thailand had the first transfer in and out of banking data under the CRS in October 2023. It will become more and more difficult to play games with pensions.Reply to
Colin *******
Reply
Lynnette *******
So you've told UK govt you've moved overseas? You've no UK address at all?
Greta *****
So UK authorities do NOT know when a citizen leaves the country in 2024? 😂
Ian *********
@Greta ****
they don’t even know who the hells coming in! 🤣Greta *****
@Ian ********
I'm familiar with that from living in AustraliaReply to
Greta *****
Reply
Andrew ******
@Greta ****
there is no passport check when you depart from the UK.Greta *****
@Andrew *****
So you just walk out of the country? No need to scan your passport? 🤔Andrew ******
@Greta ****
yupGreta *****
Andrew Rice Weird. So how does the government keep track of people who shouldn't be allowed to leave the country? 🤔
Reply to
Greta *****
Reply
Paulus *********
@Greta ****
what part of no dont you understand. It's not like Thailand were they have a system in place to record who comes in and goes out. The UK does not have such a system.Lloyd *********
@Paulus ********
that was certainly the case when I last went back 10 years ago. IO just looked at my passport, confirmed it was me, and let me through, no electronic scanning, same on exit.Can anyone who has recently entered/exited the UK confirm that is still the procedure?
Paulus *********
@Lloyd ********
they will scan your passport on the way in, not going out.Reply to
Paulus *********
Reply
David *********
Always keep a Uk address and tell the robbing government nothing
Plus use internet banking for money transfers
Plus use internet banking for money transfers
Roy ******
@David ********
just what I did and use UK address to get my bank card sent out can someone please tell me where I went wrongRoy ******
@David ********
how come my pension got frozen and I got a UK address??Ian *********
@Roy *****
what do you mean when you say your pension got frozen?Roy ******
@Ian ********
it means it stays the sameReply to
Roy ******
Reply
Greta *****
@David ********
So you think the government has no means to know that you're overseas if you don't 'tell' them? Have you ever heard of 'passport control'?Paulus *********
@Greta ****
the UK does not know when you leave the country , it's not recorded at allRoy ******
@Paulus ********
bet it isPaulus *********
@Roy *****
nope , I was border force, if you are a wanted criminal or on the of interest list they will, other than that no.Andy **********
@Paulus ********
what would examples "of interest list" be?? 🤔David *********
@Greta ****
how do you think millions of retirees live abroad,Uk address to get your full pensionJohn **********
@David ********
think they may be in for a shock now that Thailand has signed up to CRSGreta *****
@David ********
Sure. Just give them a UK address and live overseas and they'll give you the money. That easy hey?Reply to
Greta *****
Reply
John ******
As said when you leave Thailand before 90 days the counting starts at 1 when you enter Thailand. And if you do not want to exceed the 180 days in Thailand just count the days.
Brandon ************
90 day reporting has nothing to do with your visa. It's a "security" measure for the Thai government, and it's only done if you spend 90 consecutive days in Thailand. If you're not in Thailand you do not do 90 day reporting.
The only thing that matters for your extension is that you purchase a re-entry permit before you leave Thailand, and that you return before your extension ends so you can apply for the next extension.
The only thing that matters for your extension is that you purchase a re-entry permit before you leave Thailand, and that you return before your extension ends so you can apply for the next extension.
Steve **********
No. 90 day resets when you leave.
Joseph *********
@Steve *********
no 90 day resets when you come back.I had a retiremen visa before covid in 5 yeaes I did 90 day check in twice.
Make sure though that you have a entry form.
I had a multiple entry.
Every time I came back to Thailand the 90 days starred again.
Just make sure yiu are there at renewal time.
Reply to
Joseph *********
Reply
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