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Do expats in Thailand have to file a tax return after 180 days of residence?
Thai Tax RulesForeign Income TaxTax ResidencyDual Taxation AgreementVisa RegulationsExpat Tax IssuesLong-Term Resident Visa (LTR)Tax Filing RequirementsIncome TaxTax Returns
Sep 24, 2024
2 years ago
David *********
ORIGINAL POSTERCan anyone confirm if they earn money back home (and pay tax) and in Thailand after 180 days do you magically get told by someone to file a tax return? Or you just don't?
TLDR : Answer Summary
Foreigners in Thailand are responsible for their own tax obligations and are not automatically notified to file a tax return after 180 days of residency. According to current regulations, individuals must keep track of their stay duration and file returns if they have assessable income exceeding 120,000 baht per year. While some commenters express skepticism about enforcement and the Thai tax system, others emphasize the importance of filing, especially to utilize tax credits from their home country to mitigate double taxation issues.
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Christopher *************
Expattaxthailand.com
Faye ********
Has your issue been resolved?
@Michael *********
has been a huge help for me. He's got some impressive credentials: former EY/PWC, 27+ years as an expat himself. He has a popular Facebook group with 10,000+ members where he does free Q&As on expat tax issues. It's called US Expat Tax Lounge™ with Mike Mertz, CPA. It might be worth checking out if you're still stuck on tax questions.Michael ******
What if...they require your tax ID number in order to extend your retirement visa????
Michael *******
more likely a tax clearance cert , but who knows ,ignorance is bliss for many, I can’t afford to get blindsided by tax man can be painful
Reply to
Michael *******
Reply
ฉันเป็นทางของประชาชน *********
Thailand only knows what you tell them.
Christopher *************
@ฉันเป็นทางของประชาชน ********
wrong unfortunatelyฉันเป็นทางของประชาชน *********
@Christopher ************
I’m a Thai National 👊🏽. The Farangs always think they know my country better than I do 😂😂😂😂Christopher *************
@ฉันเป็นทางของประชาชน ********
the point I'm making is that many countries are now linking up on finances and tax so Thailand knows if people are not giving them the full information these days , that's the point I'm makingReply to
Christopher *************
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Jim ********
Only those silly enough to get a Tax ID number! I can't speak for other countries but the Australian DTA protects Australian Tax Residents from paying tax in Thailand on money already taxed.
Tony ********
@Jim *******
i think you need to read the Australian DTA again, and not make a sweeping statement to all Australians, based on your personal tax situation. The DTA does ring fence certain income types so they can be treated as non assesable, and if you only remit non assesable income then correct you dont have to file. But there are a lot more assesable income types than non assesable, and if these are remited then tax would be owed. The filing is your opportunity to reduce what you owe by using tax paid as a credit. If you dont file and you had assesable income, you dont reduce what you owe, and if they ever knock on your door, you could owe upto 10 years back tax plus fines based on their calculations.Jim ********
@Tony *******
You've missed the most important part of the DTA which establishes tax residency. Australians who have retained Australian Tax Residency merely have to show permanent residence availability to ensure Australia retains SOLE taxation rights. It couldn't be in any plainer English. As these Aussies therefore have relinquished Thai Tax Residency there is no obligation to file a Thai Tax Return.Tony ********
@Jim *******
if thats your interpretation of the wording, then so be it, but i couldn't find it within the DTA. But DTA's are complex documents and I may well have missed it.David *********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Jim *******
I don't have perm residency - what do they need to see? Eg what if I lived with family or somethingJim ********
@David ********
Go f**k yourselfDavid *********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Jim *******
I think jimmies feelings were hurt 🤗Jim ********
@David ********
I try to give you solid advice and you abuse me. Try pulling your head out of your asshole for five minutesReply to
Jim ********
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John **********
@Jim *******
To get the credit for tax already paid you must first complete a Thai tax returnJim ********
@John *********
Not required for Australian Tax Residents. Australia has SOLE taxation rights. Sole as in ONLY. Aussie tax residents are free from Thai taxJohn **********
@Jim *******
I don't see that at all. Could you point me to the section of the DTA that stipulates that?John **********
@Jim *******
that determines residence not tax liability. Needs to be read in conjunction with the rest of the DTA. There is a similar clause in all of the DTAs I've looked atReply to
John **********
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Jo **********
@Jim *******
exactly good pointReply to
Jo **********
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Tony ********
Filing a tax return for tax residents with assesable income (remitted or earned in country) of more than 120k bht in the tax year is mandatory, so no requests are sent out. This is not a new rule and has been in place for many years. Filing allows you to reduce or negate the tax owed using the Thai allowances and DTA credits. Not filing doesnt mean you dont owe tax, and it would be much harder to gain credits against for historic years.
Andy ************
@Tony *******
Just retain tax residency in your home country and you won't need to file a tax return in ThailandNick ************
@Andy ***********
if you are in Thailand for more than 180 days you are liable for tax in Thailand regardless if you pay tax in your home country.Andy ************
@Nick ***********
Not if you retain tax residency in your home country. For Australians anyone. We've got a pretty water tight DTA. We can only be taxed in one country. Your country might be differentReply to
Andy ************
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Nick ************
@Andy ***********
I pay tax in the UK on pensions and rental property. However, I spend more than 180 days in Thailand and beleive that I sm then committed to pay tax there . I also beleive thatv ny tax paid in UK is offset against tax owed in Thailand. It will be a complicated exercise. Furthermore any assets held before the end of last year are not taxable in Thailand. What I am worried about is the sale if my primary residececand rental property in the UK. Obviously I will pay cgt on the rental since I moved out but the rest is not taxable in the UK. This has the potential of raising a huge tax liability in Thailand if their proposal to tax world wide income goes ahead. If it does I will spend less than 180 days in Thailand in the year I sell. Could save thousands of pounds. This is the situation I beleive is the case after reading a lot of articles written by do called experts. One said that 150k baht a month is below the thai tax threshold anyway.Tony ********
@Nick ***********
yes you have to be careful on selling up and moving, with regard timing. Under current system making the move from July onwards has more tax advantages. The 150k bht is a yearly figure not monthly.. checkout the various webinars at expattaxthailand, very useful info.Reply to
Tony ********
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Michael *******
Not if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand , and tax residency in UK for example depends on type of income. Rental income for example is taxable regardless of tax residency.
Jo **********
@Andy ***********
correctTony ********
@Jo *********
incorrect, it doesnt matter about tax residency in another country, thats why there are DTA's. If your 'Assesable Income' is less than 120k bht then you dont have to file.If your a tax resident still in uk, you shouldnt have to pay tax here (as you have already been taxed), but filing is how this is communicated and credits used, and under certain scenarios tax may be due.
Jo **********
@Tony *******
well yes understand but I pay taxes in the Netherlands at 52%. As long as I ampaying my full taxes somewhere else I am not filing a tax return here in Thailand. It’s a waste of time and irritation for me
Tony ********
@Jo *********
obviously your choice, same as not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle.Jo **********
@Tony *******
no not the same but do get your point. For me driving a scooter is an unnecessary risk, even with a helmetAndy ************
@Tony *******
The mugs who are so excited to get a tax ID and file a Thai Tax Return have total freedom of choice. Those of us who have already paid taxes elsewhere and retain tax residency in another country will choose not to do so.Jo **********
@Tony *******
yes the important thing to me is that I know I am not cheating with moneyReply to
Jo **********
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John *****
Imagine charging 10x the price as Thais who mostly don't pay tax to go into national parks then expecting to volunteer tax that Thailand has zero right to 🤭🥴
Frank ********
@John ****
we are only guests, even the condo, villa, farms and business owned property bypassing the land owner laws are also guests.Frank ********
Hm🙏
John *****
@Frank *******
exactly and guests don't pay income tax 😋Peter **********
@Frank *******
nobody is a guest, guests are invited. we are aliens who can stay here at the discretion of the immigration police, should you pay for your visa/extension and also meet the financial requirements.Reply to
Peter **********
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Jim ********
@John ****
In theory Thai people own the national parks. They should be allowed free entry. I'm so thankful I can afford the 300 baht to get in. I feel sorry for those expats and tourists who can't afford 300 baht 😂😂😂Radost **************************
@Jim *******
you are an complete idiot, it's a product, and everyone has to get the same price as Thais pay also the same price when they go oversee. I want to hear the reaction in Thailand if a Thai would be charged 10 times the price of another person because of looking asianCharles ********
@Jim *******
imagin for a moment being born in this country, go to school in this country, and work and paying taxes in this country. Your neighbor that lives on the same street, went to the same school, works the same job, and pays the same taxes. Yet he pays 40 baht and you 400 baht to enter a tax funded place. The only difference is your color of your parents passport at birth and your ethnicity, that's not a good basis to charge someone 10x more. Some people just don't care about the cost, it's more about the fairness and moral values...and yes, there are plenty of foreigners here where Thailand is the only country they have ever lived but its not easy to get citizenship.
Jim ********
@Charles *******
I feel for you. Have you ever considered a Gofundme appeal? 😂😂😂Charles ********
@Jim *******
I know this might sound strange, but i genuinely care about other people than myself. This isn't trolling comment. If you have a different view point, I am genuinely interested in hearing it.
Let me give a real example, but change the names.
Tepa is from Pakistan, a much poorer country than Thailand. He has worked and lived in Thailand for 10 years. Paid his taxes and through his contributions paid the social taxes that pay directly for the hospitals.
Blake is from the UK. He worked for one of the largest financial companies in the world. He has never lived, worked, or pay taxes in Thailand. He came here on an extended trip for several months. Blake mom was thai, so he was very easily able to get a national id card and become thai.
If tepa and Blake both broke their arms, went to the same hospital, got the same care, tepa would have to pay more than Blake. Even though Blake is richer, doesn't live or work or pay taxes here. Blake treatment is partially paid by that the tax contributions from tepa job.
Do you believe that tepa and Blake are both paying there fairshare and why?
I believe the a more fair system would take something other strictly nationality into consideration. Using a residency based system is both reasonable and customary and would align itself with the UN civil rights treaties Thailand has ratified.
Reply to
Charles ********
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David *********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Jim *******
all hail Jim.. a western guy with 300 baht to spend on parks. Don't forget to get the foot massage while at the park and a coconut to sip on while your ass is wiped.Jim ********
@David ********
Idiot 😂😂😂David *********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Jim *******
the logic behind your statement are impressiveReply to
David *********
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John *****
@Jim *******
I'm glad you are thankful for all the boot polish you receive ✌️Reply to
John *****
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Andy ************
@John ****
And what about the stupid mugs who pay visa agents 20,000 baht for their visa extensions?John *****
@Andy ***********
another stealth theft by the Thais right thereReply to
Andy ************
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Charles ********
@John ****
just for the sake of accuracy, I believe the max price disparity at public parks is only 8.3x. We are so lucky it's not 10x 🤣John *****
@Charles *******
Khao yai is 40, 400 for adults and 20, 200 for children, the one on koh Chang forgot it's name is the same.Reply to
John *****
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John **********
You don't get magically told. You need to work it out for yourself
Neil ******
You have to file PND with the Revenue Department. They don't contact you to tell you. You're supposed to know how many days you are here and file accordingly.
Stephen **********
I stayed in Thailand 6mths went beginning Nov left end Apr both times I've had tax rebate they came in june
Peter ********
@Stephen *********
interesting. I have been in Thailand all year and received a tax rebate too, but, but, but I had to prove that I had been living in Thailand over 180 days by showing a copy of EVERY page in my passport. No big deal other than a short trip to the tax office.David **********
@Peter *******
I hope you realize that there are no more passport stamps issued by Immigration when you leave Thailand via Suvarnabhumi (unless you ask for one).Peter ********
@David *********
I didn't realize that. I haven't checked, but they certainly stamp when you return.Reply to
Peter ********
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Steve *************
Eventually the immigration computers will be automatically linked to all Thai banks, and to Thai taxation computers and it will automatically flag at 180-3 days in Thailand and how much $ you have bought into Thailand that calendar year, then alert Thai taxation computers system. Then it will also automatically contact you via phone call, messages, emails and snail mail, and face to face at your stated thailand residence and give you what they claim to be your thailand taxation debt. You will also be provided with it when you attempt to leave Thailand and asked how you will be paying that outstanding amount BEFORE you leave Thailand. It hasn’t all come in yet, BUT it will….$$$$
Peter **********
@Steve ************
the tax clearance could be used for exit of the country or as a requirement for extensions..hope not but exiting the country, the requirement of a TCC is currently law, but dormant. like 90 days was 15 years ago.Frank ********
@Steve ************
condo, villa, leased home confiscation.Martyn ***********
@Steve ************
Mate.. The immigration offices arent even linked to airport immigration.. 555 to link with private banks is just never going to happen ever..Steve *************
@Martyn **********
sure it won't happen...Reply to
Steve *************
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Michael *******
Or they require a tax clearance certificate when renewing a long term visa, having lived in many different countries, tax is one area I have learned not to take liberties , that said folk without families or ties here will likely just ignore it and get bar advice, and when the poo hits the fan simply fly off into the sunset, everyone to there own I guess.
Andy ************
@Steve ************
Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen! 😂😂😂😂Charles ********
@Steve ************
right, the same immigration department that can't add you to the 90 day report system each new entry without your physical passport in front of them. I am sure this advanced computer system is just days away 🤣Steve *************
@Charles *******
you will find out soon enough. I know how incompetent they are, but I also know how greedy they are.Reply to
Steve *************
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David **********
This discussion includes people who have paying Thai income tax for years.
If you have never filed a Thai tax return, you may not have to, since it's possible the new tax regulations will not be enforced next year. Nobody knows.
If you have never filed a Thai tax return, you may not have to, since it's possible the new tax regulations will not be enforced next year. Nobody knows.
David **********
@Steve ************
and then people driving motorcycles without a helmet will be pulled over and ticketed.Jim ********
Robert ****
@Steve ************
Wake me up when it happens...😆Reply to
Robert ****
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Shayne **********
How do these Thai Tax Rules affect foreigners in Thailand? Will they affect you?
Thomas from American International Tax Advisers talking about the latest updates regarding the Foreigner Income Tax on money brought into Thailand.
Thomas from American International Tax Advisers talking about the latest updates regarding the Foreigner Income Tax on money brought into Thailand.
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@https://www.facebook********************
Don ******
From what I understand, no taxes have to be paid for retirement income transferred into Thailand because of the DTA with the U.S.
Example:
(railroad pension, military retirement, VA disability, SS…etc)
Plz advise if this information is incorrect.
TIA
Example:
(railroad pension, military retirement, VA disability, SS…etc)
Plz advise if this information is incorrect.
TIA
Frank ********
@Don *****
government pensions yes, private pensions no, capital gains noChristopher *************
@Don *****
all DTAs are different for countries it seemsDon ******
@Christopher ************
I was only speaking about the U.S.I agree that each country would have a different DTA.
Christopher *************
@Don *****
ok thanks DonReply to
Christopher *************
Reply
David *********
@Don *****
government pensions are not taxable, SSN and similar , every thing else could be taxableDavid **********
@David ********
not exactly true, but no point in debating this.Reply to
David **********
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Tim *********
@Don *****
I understand that is true of the DTA with the USA. But citizens of each country need to check what's in their DTA. The UK, for example, only certain government pensions are exempt from Thai income tax. And I mean civil service, health care & teaching (in public sector health/education), local government, etc are exempt. Occupational pensions in the private sector, and the state pension, are not exempt 🤨Lawrence *******
@Don *****
Sections 20 and 21 of the DTA between the USA and Thailand cover these benefits. By treaty, these government pensions are nonassessable income. Although theoretically you should not be taxed as nonasseable income is nontaxable, you are still required to file a tax return.😉🤫Kool *******
@Lawrence ******
the problem with this is age. You can get a retirement visa extension when you are 50, but you can not draw a pension from your home country that early, except in a few situations like VA pensions. So at some point Thailand is going to want to know where the money you live on is coming from, and if tax has been paid on it, as you can not work on a retirement visa extension. That will be targeted first when they start assessing people's tax liabilities.Lawrence *******
@Kool ******
Military retirement can come as early as age 38 if the service member completes 20 years of active duty from the time of first entering the military at age 18. Many Americans retire to the Philippines following 20 years of active duty. By age 48 one could accrue a much bigger military retirement with 30 years of active duty.Proving the source of the military retirement would be simple enough.
Whether the person meets the financial requirements for a DTV, Elite, or LTR visa being under 50 is another issue entirely.
Don ******
@Lawrence ******
I entered active duty on my 17th bday.Reply to
Don ******
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Jim ********
@Lawrence ******
Only required to complete a tax return if you have assessable incomeLawrence *******
@Jim *******
We will see if that remains the case and I hope that you are correct. Just as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs provides guidelines for all visa types, individual embassies and consulates have no problem in modifying the requirements or interpreting the requirements differently. Oftentimes, individual embassies and consulates make the requirements more stringent than intended. Likewise, look how individual immigration policies for extensions of stay for the various categories of visitors varies from office to office, or for that matter within an office. With literally hundreds of local tax offices one shudders to think how these entities will interpret or misinterpret the national regulations.But you are correct. Current tax forms do not presently have a box for nonassessable income. Hopefully, it will stay that way. Thanks for the heads-up.
Michael *******
@Jim *******
remittances are assessable incomeLawrence *******
@Michael ******
Not if they are deemed nonassessable by the DTV.Jim ********
@Michael ******
Pensions are not assessableMichael *******
@Jim *******
remittances are regardless of source, however a DTA will allow you to use tax paid in your home country as a credit in Thailand, still requires due process to be followed. Personal choice based on circumstances, with a home and other investments here as well as a (non Thai ) wife I don’t plan to f@@k with the system or pay agents.would cost me more than any tax due. Everyone to their own I guess.Jim ********
@Michael ******
People who are shrewd enough to retain tax residency in their home country will not have remittances assessed in Thailand, as tax will only be payable in the home country. Tax credits are not relevant for these peopleMichael *******
@Jim *******
I have tax residency in UK as I earn income from property rental, even though I don’t spend more than 20 days a year there, s I have to file there and that also includes income from UK pensions. I am now obliged to file here as resident under new guidelines but can use tax paid in UK as a credit against small amount of tax due here, as I only remit 65k a month which also takes care of my visa requirement. Having bought here last year, we don’t pay rent so live comfortably. Everyone’s circumstances will differ.Jim ********
@Michael ******
Yes I understand the UK DTA is a terrible one. Fortunately the Australian DTA is a beaut! I have retained Australian Tax Residency and as a result it takes precedence over Thai Tax Residency so Aussies are basically in the clearDon ******
@Jim *******
You are correct.SSA website confirms that tax returns are only filed for assessable income, not SS or retirement.
Lawrence *******
@Don *****
Hopefully, you are correct. But correct me if I am wrong. It is the Thai government and individual tax offices capable of misinterpreting and modifying tax regulations which will be the final arbiter of what actually unfolds, and not the SSA in the USA. Just as the embassies, consulates, and individual immigration offices routinely interpret, misinterpret, change, modify, or make regulations and requirements more stringent regarding visa categories and extensions, nothing is stopping several hundred individual tax offices from doing the same. You are correct, though.Currently there is not a box on the Thai Income Tax Form for nonassessable income.
Don ******
@Lawrence ******
Thailand can obviously change anything they want within their own country, but I am unconcerned about them changing their side of the DTA.Which would be the only way they could require taxes on remittances of retirement money that has already been taxed and falls within the DTA.
But I guess anything can happen 💁🏼♂️
David **********
@Don *****
Thailand cannot legally rewrite the DTA with the US, as it's a bilateral treaty.But your understanding of the tax consequences of the DTA are not accurate.
For example, the US gets first crack at taxation of Social Security and other income streams generated in the US, but then if Thailand's marginal tax rates are higher, Thailand would tax the income streams at its tax rates, minus whatever was paid to the US. The DTA only provides for coordination of taxation between the two countries.
If you are a US citizen and a Thai tax resident, you are going to pay the same tax amount in total (to the two countries ) that you would pay Thailand if you weren't a US citizen.
Don ******
David **********
@Lawrence ******
If some Farang in the village is forced to file a tax return, they would be at the mercy of whoever they face in the local Revenue Dept. Once you are in the Thai tax system, it's almost impossible to get out.Lawrence *******
@David *********
I couldn't agree more.Under the Treaty of Amity I have been able to own various small businesses 100%. As a result I have filed both business and individual tax returns. Local taxing authorities are seldom up on any substantive or nuanced rule changes, well publicized or not. I have witnessed many businesses ruined by the powers that be.
Sue **********
@Don *****
so thats only for US retirees? Because all other retirees with pension income would have to file tax return and pay tax.Don ******
@Sue *********
I am unfamiliar with other nations tax requirements.I only have knowledge about U.S. regulations and the U.S. Thai DTA.
Jim ********
@Sue *********
Australia doesn't have to. Pensions cannot be taxed in ThailandReply to
Jim ********
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David **********
@Lawrence ******
so maybe 100,000 Farangs in the village are going to the monkey house because they have never filed?Lawrence *******
@David *********
Never stated anything about going to prison. I basically stated that Americans covered by the DTV who receive government pensions have nothing to worry about regarding bringing in funds from the USA. I also sarcastically suggested that one should file a tax return, with the emphasis on should...followed by a wink emoji and a shhh! emoji.That was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it, but then again, you are not originally from the USA, are you?
David **********
@Lawrence ******
oh, I'm a gringo 100%.Also, I know enough about DTVs and Thai tax regulations that for the poor bastards that have to file Thai returns, most of the tax advice given here is either wrong or irrelevant. I would go into it more, but I don't believe that most Farangs will be filing tax returns next year
Michael *******
@David *********
not really , they just won’t be able to renew their visa, agents will be lining their pockets i guess, so another form of tax in agents fees 🙂David **********
@Michael ******
there is zero information today that visa renewals will require filing a tax return.Michael *******
@David *********
correct, but there is no other way they can enforce it , so it’s a logical next step which folks should prepare for - back taxes and penalties can be brutal. They will probably look at levels of compliance before deciding on how to enforce, thats why I am taking no chances, too much to lose, for the sake of filling out a few forms every year.David **********
@Michael ******
you are applying logic to the Thai government. Bad move.More likely, enforcement will be delayed. That's why most people can't even get a Thai tax ID right now.
Michael *******
@David *********
got my Tax ID no problem, having lived in Africa for 20 years understand 3rd world logic and it can also bite you in the ass 😐Reply to
Michael *******
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Adam ******
Wing it.
Marty *********
I'm working with a tax firm and plan to file a Thai tax return for 2024. Like in the US, I would think that if you don't file the return no one is going to magically show up on your doorstep. I stopped filing tax returns in California in 2019 and only this year did they notice it and send me a letter about it (I got it cleared up OK). I doubt that Thai immigration is going to know anything about your tax status. One could think up all sorts of nefarious ways they could catch you but I would think you could fly under the radar for a long time or forever. However, technically you may actually owe taxes in Thailand and there could be some time in your future when this catches up with you.
The tax treaty with your home country is really going to determine your tax liability. They are probably all pretty similar with regard to avoiding double taxation. I learned some interesting things about the US-Thai treaty that benefits me. I wouldn't have know about it if I hadn't talked to the tax firm.
Filing a tax return is an easy decision for me because my tax liability in Thailand is essentially zero because I have an LTR visa but I will file for 2024 just to see what is going on. I tend to follow the straight and narrow.
The tax treaty with your home country is really going to determine your tax liability. They are probably all pretty similar with regard to avoiding double taxation. I learned some interesting things about the US-Thai treaty that benefits me. I wouldn't have know about it if I hadn't talked to the tax firm.
Filing a tax return is an easy decision for me because my tax liability in Thailand is essentially zero because I have an LTR visa but I will file for 2024 just to see what is going on. I tend to follow the straight and narrow.
Frank ********
@Marty ********
be mindful of the next likely change. Global income being taxed, possibly affects the protected ltrFrank ********
@Marty ********
it’s a plan, I am still trying to figure it out. Wife is from Thailand and family health issues. Not possible to bring here. So just recently started looking at least ten years there. In Florida here and love it.Frank ********
@Marty ********
that is all good today, ltr renewal is not guaranteed, so I would not make long term plans based on that And second they are looking at taxing global income which may or may not be protected by ltr. All that is a wait and see. Which is what I am doing. Heading to Thailand on non-o convert to ltr, still plan on coming back to US in January. Back again in Thailand around Sept. I will not be considered a tax resident, for the first two years of implementation. If I knew my tax and health care situation I would have already purchased a villa away from the beach and a condo close to the beach. That is a lot of cash that is not circulating there.
Marty *********
@Frank *******
". . . renewal is not guaranteed . . ." Look, nothing is guaranteed, neither is your O visa guaranteed. If you plan to be an expat then you have the accept the impermanence and uncertainty inherent in that status. Yes, I am going to plan on my 10 year LTR status. Long stay visas change a lot less than tourist visas. If Thailand actually does tax worldwide income, like the US already does, then that is what I will deal with. My Social Security is protected by the Dual Tax Treaty. I will remit my work pension to Thailand and it is exempt with the LTR visa. Any work pension left in the US would be a small amount and I will pay the tax, if any, on that small amount.
For health care I have a Thai policy and savings in the US set aside for that purpose.
Reply to
Marty *********
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Marty *********
@Frank *******
My federal US Social Security is protected by the Dual Tax treaty. My work pension is not. The portion of my work pension that I bring into Thailand is protected by my LTR. That leaves the portion of my work pension that remains in the US as potentially taxable in Thailand. I would pay Thai tax on that but I wouldn’t pay US tax on that money. It is not going to be a significant tax for me.Reply to
Marty *********
Reply
Christopher *************
Some good advice on here but unfortunately thete are the know alls that bury their heads in the sand. I suggest like I did ,approach an accountancy company and get the facts ,,
Christopher *************
@Marty ********
the UK DTA is useless unfortunately, even pensions are taxed in Thailand against the taxable allowance tablesPeter **********
@Christopher ************
hmrc told me in writing that the dta cant be used in thailand. if you dont beleive me I can post the relevant paragraph from that letterMarty *********
@Christopher ************
My US Social Security is not taxable according the the US-Thai DTA. My work pension is taxable according to my tax advisor. But, as I mentioned previously, I have an LTR visa and the money I bring into Thailand is not taxable.Christopher *************
Reply to
Christopher *************
Reply
Robert *****
@Marty ********
WHY OPEN THAT CAN OF WORMS MARTY…? Let it go until they knock your door.Marty *********
@Robert ****
Like I said, I have little risk of paying any Thai tax and as it turned out I learned of some advantages to my US tax obligations due to the Thai-US tax treaty that I wouldn’t have known about if I hadn’t talked to the tax firm.Reply to
Marty *********
Reply
Marty *********
@Martyn **********
7 years in ThailandMarty *********
@Martyn **********
I have no idea what you are talking about 🙄Martyn ***********
@Marty ********
I think we can all see that... 555Marty *********
@Martyn **********
??? Somewhere in here you must think you are being cleverMartyn ***********
@Marty ********
No mate... I know I am. Laughing at sceptics panicking over stuff is favourite hobby.Marty *********
@Martyn **********
No panic. I just have a plan and answering someone’s question (not you)Jeff *******
@Martyn **********
you really need to stop talking. You’re showing yourself up with your abject cluelessnessBart **************
@Martyn **********
like this guy. He studied for it. It's his profession. Now some idiot (which is you) shows up here in the topic to tell him he doesn't know anything. It's quite hilarious, you know.Martyn ***********
@Bart *************
up to you..Marty *********
@Martyn **********
The tax rule change came into effect Jan 1, 2024. It has always been the case that you become a Thai tax resident after 180 days. Don’t want to file a tax return? That’s up to you. Good luck with that.Martyn ***********
@Marty ********
no... They announced it. Nobody has filed a tax form or paid a bean... The rich thai that its aimed at won't let it happen, especially now Thaksin is back in charge.Martyn ***********
@Marty ********
But you didn't answer anything? You posted a load rubbish about something that hasn't happened and nobody knows what will happen...Reply to
Martyn ***********
Reply
Martyn ***********
@Marty ********
time you learned a bit about how works here... It hasnt happened till it has...Reply to
Martyn ***********
Reply
Shayne **********
It's voluntary.
John ******
@Shayne *********
tax is voluntary? Never heard of that!Reply to
John ******
Reply
Lynnette *******
My accountant in UK said with dual taxation agreement, and UK tax paid would be offset in Thailand. But over 180 days resident in Thailand might make you non resident in uk. So ask an accountant.
Jeff *******
Darren Grist- a SIPP is UK sourced, no tax paid with a nil tax code which you will receive after filling in a P85.
Darren *******
@Jeff ******
rent is UK sourced, tax paid on it whether you're resident or non-residentJeff *******
Who mentioned rent? I said a SIPP (self invested personal pension)
Reply to
Jeff *******
Reply
Frank ********
@Lynnette ******
yep, but everyone needs to keep their eyes closed. Big nothing burger. Nothing changes in Thailand.Martyn ***********
@Lynnette ******
nobody in Thailand know's anything, so how does tour UK accountants? If anything without experience of Thailands governments... 'idiosyncrasies' they probably have even less relevance?Lynnette *******
@Martyn **********
he knows what is current for the UK and dual taxation. Thailand hasn't implemented anything different or new yet as far as I know. If they do I'd maybe get a thai accountant to advise.Reply to
Lynnette *******
Reply
Darren *******
@Lynnette ******
UK residency status would be irrelevant as UK would still have primary taxing rights over UK sourced income. You'd claim the foreign tax credit from UK on your Thai tax return still for UK sourced income.Jeff *******
@Darren ******
it’s very relevant, non residency comes with a nil tax code. So it’s not taxed at source, up to you then if it’s paid in Thailand (which you should do)Darren *******
@Jeff ******
a UK non-resident is taxed in the UK on UK sourced income.Reply to
Darren *******
Reply
Lynnette *******
@Darren ******
my accountant has overseas clients and I leave it up to him to deal with. He knows the rules and I won't worry about it. I will retain a UK address, banks and property too. UK Residency is an issue for those on pensions.Darren *******
@Lynnette ******
I'm not too bothered about your accountant and whether he does or doesn't have overseas clients, I'm merely commenting on your comment about UK residency and the minimal impact it has on UK sourced income as the UK retains primary taxing rights on UK sourced income irrespective of one's residency status in the UK.Lynnette *******
@Darren ******
everyone's income source is not necessarily the same. And some lose out if they are no longer resident in UK.Lynnette *******
@Darren ******
the over 180 days residency issue is about losing out for various reasons. You really don't have to be so rude.Darren *******
@Lynnette ******
the 180 days in Thailand residency has zero impact on tax treatment in the UK on UK sourced income. As an fyi for you, you can be a UK tax resident from as little as 15 days in the UK during the tax year.Lynnette *******
@Darren ******
you're still confused about my residency comment. So I'm not explaining further.Darren *******
@Lynnette ******
I'm not confused at all, you're the one who is confused and clearly has no idea on how residency works from a tax perspective.Reply to
Darren *******
Reply
Peter **********
nobody has asked me to file a tax return, somehow I guess you just have to know all about it, which seems impossible
Frank ********
@Peter *********
hm, hopefully immigration department does not coordinate with the revenue department.Frank ********
@Peter *********
of course not🙏Peter **********
Frank Sykora I went to revenue dept toask about tax, they showed me a few completed tax forms by expats. looking through them There were other attached sheets from immigtation about visa status and listing all entry and exit flights, day, time, airline and some other stuff.
Reply to
Peter **********
Reply
Peter **********
@Frank *******
think they do alreadyReply to
Peter **********
Reply
Steve *******
Go consult a professional
Neil ************
@Steve ******
the Tax laws for 180 days have not changed, they have been there for years and 1000’s of Expat have lived in Thailand for years. As for Tax experts, most of them are scaremongering to get you to part with your cash, to them, just like Agents.Jeff *******
@Neil ***********
part with your cash for what?Reply to
Jeff *******
Reply
Martyn ***********
@Steve ******
who doesn't know either.. 55Bart **************
@Martyn **********
no, YOU don't know. Keep such claims with yourself. Tax professionals typically do know what they talk about, they studied for it and they stay up to date with rules.Nick ************
Assets held before the end of last year are not taxable when brought into Thailand so get the appropriate documents together to prove it.
Nick ************
@Bart *************
no they dont know because I have talked to three and the all said something different.Jim ********
@Bart *************
The problem is the tax professionals in Thailand are touting for business where business doesn't exist.Jo **********
@Jim *******
this is trueMartyn ***********
@Bart *************
have you just arrived in Thailand today.. So called professionals will robb you blind, nobody's knows anything.. Nobody's paid anything.. Nobody's filed any tax forms... You carry on buddy.. 555Jeff *******
@Martyn **********
plenty of professionals know a lot, no ones paid cos it won’t be due yet and no one needs to file until Dec 31st - you need to stop talking.Reply to
Jeff *******
Reply
Martyn ***********
No.. Nobody can confirm anything at this time... Don't listen anybody who is because they are talking rubbish.
Frank ********
@Martyn **********
would that be the revenue department.Wayne *****
@Martyn **********
exactly 💯Bernard *********
@Martyn **********
absolutelyReply to
Bernard *********
Reply
Brandon ************
And who do you suppose will be the magical person to tell you this?
Jeff *******
@Brandon ***********
the immigration officer you’re hoping to get an extension fromFrank ********
@Brandon ***********
close your eyesDavid *********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Brandon ***********
you ❤️ I have hopeReply to
David *********
Reply
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