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What are the implications of the recent changes in Thailand's tax laws for expats?
Thai tax lawsexpat taxationvisa requirementsincome taxretirement visastax residencyforeign incomereciprocal tax agreementsOECD guidelinesinheritance tax in Thailand
TLDR : Answer Summary
Recent discussions among expats in Thailand have focused on the implications of updated tax regulations, especially concerning income earned while residing in Thailand. Participants highlighted the need to understand tax residency, defined as spending more than 180 days in Thailand, which obligates individuals to file tax returns for their income. There are concerns about enforcement, particularly for retirees who might overlook filing due to perceived lax enforcement. The conversation touched on reciprocal tax agreements and inheritance tax regulations, with insights suggesting that while the government historically may not have enforced tax rules stringently, recent OECD membership indicates a shift towards stricter compliance and monitoring of financial transactions. The consensus suggests that expats should remain informed about their tax obligations to avoid future complications.
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Graham *******
For those who like reading in the bath, here is the OECD report on Tax avoidance using tax heavens. Prior to 2024 Thailand was a tax heaven, since joining the OECD, Thailand has been instructed to close all tax loop holes and tax all income of all its residents. Here is a reference to the government instruction.
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3916A59DE17F6254DB006DA8B98Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
Switzerland had banking secrets for decades, until the EU made a deal and all bank balances are now reported.The Dutch tax office gave people 6 months or something to voluntarily report their balances and catch up their taxes due over the past xx years (dunno how many years they went back) and scored hundreds of millions in unpaid taxes.
The reporting time limit has passed and now they are chasing the rest, but charging everyone found with a 100% fine.
It’s incredibly naive to make tax evasion decisions based on IT capabilities in 2024.
Graham *******
@Peter *********
BTW in Thailand the fine for failing audit is interest on the unpaid tax and a 200% penalty. So if you bring in Eu100,k and you get caught out, then yoiu gonna have to find maybe eu75k which would mean financial ruins and maybe even jail. Who knows!Reply to
Graham *******
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Frank **********
Hopefully I will be back in my home country by the time they get this figured out. Only reason I am in Thailand is because my wife is Thai. I plan on taking her to the USA as soon as I can get her a immigrant visa.
Han ********
"Income derived by a foreigner who is not a Thai tax resident". --> What makes you a Thai tax resident? Secondly, does this only apply to foreigners? What about income from sources outside Thailand derived by Thai citizens? (I don't have income from sources outside Thailand, but my Thai wife has plenty.) Also also, what about foreign income from a Thai citizen (or foreign tax resident) that is NOT brought into Thailand? And is that considered a good idea by the Thai government: less money coming into Thailand? Because that's what they'll achieve.
And how will that even be checked.. you can leave more funds abroad and pay for lots of things directly from abroad. Either direct, or via just any Thai person who will do the payment on your behalf; is the revenue department equipped to go collect tax on lots of small payments that will start happening directly from abroad? Keep in mind that people currently bring in money in bulk because there's no reason not to. Start taxing it and there is a LOT of reason to stop doing that.
And how will that even be checked.. you can leave more funds abroad and pay for lots of things directly from abroad. Either direct, or via just any Thai person who will do the payment on your behalf; is the revenue department equipped to go collect tax on lots of small payments that will start happening directly from abroad? Keep in mind that people currently bring in money in bulk because there's no reason not to. Start taxing it and there is a LOT of reason to stop doing that.
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Han *******
1) Being in Thailand 180 days or more in a single calendar year qualifies you as tax resident.2) Applies to foreigners as well as nationals.
3) The new guidelines are in fact targeting wealthy Thai with foreign income. No difference between Thai and non-Thai. Criterium is not your passport, but 180 or more in Thailand.
4) Only income which is brought to Thailand can qualify as taxable income.
5) This law exists already many years. Nothing new, except the “savings from last year” part is ending after 2024.
6) How checked? Good question. In 2025 or 2026 maybe not, but can you foresee the future? All money is transferred by computers. All transactions are stored somewhere. So… Make your own conclusions.
7) Thailand is entering the OECD, which includes international reporting of transactions. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow…
8 ) A computer doesn’t care whether a payment is small or large, but when they start enforcing, if ever, they will probably start above a certain minimum in the beginning. Nobody knows if or when this will happen. Nobody knows if the threshold will ever exist or not. Think beyond today’s calendar.
9) Bringing in money, whether in bulk or not, was already taxable.
10) Are you searching for ways to commit tax fraud? The revenue department doesn’t have to check anything, *you* are responsible for filing your income taxes.
Whether you want to be on this side of the law or the other side is up to you. Don’t go whining if they might ever catch you committing fraud.
PS Financial transactions are already internationally reported in large parts of the globe. Whether Thailand has access today is really irrelevant. None of us knows what happens in one, five or ten years.
But I know for sure that governments know more than you think. In Netherlands, most of your tax information is already in the system when you fire up your electronic tax from on March 1 or later. All your salary and social income is listed, including withheld taxes. Bank balances, mortgages, loans, interest received and paid, dividends received and taxes paid. it’s already in the forms. Your marital status is listed as well as the value of your house.
Do you really believe Thailand is incapable of getting such systems in the future?
‘1984’ was 40 years ago!
I don’t say you or I will live to see it happen. The only thing I know is that Thailand has a deficit problem and the government is on the hunt. Whether you’ll get caught in the fire or not is an entirely different discussion.
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Peter **********
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Sam *******
Inheritance Tax Rates in Thailand
Tax Threshold: Inheritance tax is applicable only if the estate’s value exceeds 100 million Baht (approximately $3 million USD).
Differential Tax Rates:
5% Tax Rate: This rate applies to inheritances passed to ascendants (such as parents) or descendants (such as children).
10% Tax Rate: This rate is applicable to other heirs, including relatives outside the direct lineage and non-relatives.
Tax Threshold: Inheritance tax is applicable only if the estate’s value exceeds 100 million Baht (approximately $3 million USD).
Differential Tax Rates:
5% Tax Rate: This rate applies to inheritances passed to ascendants (such as parents) or descendants (such as children).
10% Tax Rate: This rate is applicable to other heirs, including relatives outside the direct lineage and non-relatives.
Radost **************************
@Sam ******
forget it Thai king owns Germany 3 billion USD in heritage tax. As he was living full time in Germany when his father died. And no Thai tax office know anything about people inherited outside of Thailand. All is bullshit! No rights no tax! Thailand can enforce nothing no information about foreign bank accounts, about foreign work contract's about costs connected with work. You just say you are living from savings or family money and no one can show you the difference.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Radost *************************
Maybe today, maybe tomorrow. Do you know what will happen in the future? Are you clearvoyant? How many years ahead can you predict? If so, go out and buy the winning ticket of the next lottery and when you ever need to pay taxes you simply buy the next winning lottery ticket. Can I adopt you? (Or you adopt me?). 🤣🤣🤣
Sam *******
@Radost *************************
what are you on about heritage tax......Inheritance is Tax free. Up to 3million USD or 100 million baht,so you can bring under those figures into Thailand Tax free...and I don't speculate or comment on the Thai Monarchy.Radost **************************
@Sam ******
it look like you don't have a clueSam *******
@Radost *************************
more of a clue than you....."heritage tax".You don't even know what I was talking about....Keep talking shit....Reply to
Sam *******
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Bastien ********
So if money come from my parents no tax ? NEET have never been so good ahah
Stefani ********
Does anyone know the list of countries for the reciprocal tax credit?
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stefani *******
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Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTERNote that the other countries may think differently. The Dutch tax office keeps telling people there is a new tax treaty, but it hasn’t been signed by Thailand.
Under the old rules you could choose the country where your income is taxed. Most Dutch chose Thailand because the rates here are considerably lower.
In the new treaty, ratified by Dutch parliament, you pay tax “at the source”, in Netherlands (for pensions).
If Thailand doesn’t ratify the new tax treaty then next year I will choose to pay taxes in Thailand. I guess the Dutch government will put much pressure to get the new treaty signed asap, definitely before 31 Dec.
Under the old rules you could choose the country where your income is taxed. Most Dutch chose Thailand because the rates here are considerably lower.
In the new treaty, ratified by Dutch parliament, you pay tax “at the source”, in Netherlands (for pensions).
If Thailand doesn’t ratify the new tax treaty then next year I will choose to pay taxes in Thailand. I guess the Dutch government will put much pressure to get the new treaty signed asap, definitely before 31 Dec.
Stefani ********
@Peter *********
thank you!This means that the counties on this list have agreements with Thailand so as NOT to make you pay taxes on the same income in both countries!
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Stefani ********
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Andy **********
All this mithering about the need to complete a Thai tax return, hasn't that always been the case?? but most didn't bother to do it, and nothing has happened, tax is automatically deducted from any thai savings accounts without you doing anything, I know that just tax on the interest on money that is sat in a savings account. unless they make it a visa requirement, or your bank requires some sort of documents to prove residency, do you think all the expats in places like Pattaya, that sit on a bar stool everyday, will start running around registering and completing tax returns?? I very much doubt it, they will continue to draw their pension from the ATM, and carry on living their lives like they have always done, and won't do anything, unless it's made compulsory and they are forced too, which may never happen.
Graham *******
@Andy *********
This is what changed, the gov issues and instruction to RD to collect tax from everyone. ********************************************************************************
Andy **********
Like I said, I'm not giving advice or encouraging anyone, you're absolutely correct saying 180+ days spent in Thailand you need to submit a tax return, I was simply stating that most expat pensioners, just living on a pension won't do anything, as things stand now, they are not in the system, they just live under the radar so to speak, like you said it's a personal choice, people should get as much information as possible and make a personal informed decision, "it's Up to you" as they like to say in Thailand.
Graham *******
@Andy *********
"Under the radar", the radar being used these days i "ground penetrating radar" it see's everywhere. However someone brings money in TH its visible from somewhere. If yoiur here the IMM dept knows that. If you transfer, by bank transfer, atm, credit card, wise, western union, cash, rolex watches, gold bars etc. its visible and they are looking for it.Andy **********
@Graham ******
so you think the authorities automatically know everyone's circumstances?? If a person is just for instance living his retirement in Thailand on his pension, being withdrawn from an ATM, and doesn't register with the tax office, how does anyone know he exists?? It's the same, as far I'm aware in any country, that person would need to be specifically looked at, and investigated by the authorities, of course all the information is obtainable, that would take a targeted investigation, they can't investigate everyone, like I said I'm not suggesting or encouraging anyone to do anything, I was simply saying I think lots of expats, especially the ones that sit on bar stools in places like Pattaya, won't do anything and just carry on as normal, only doing something if made a visa requirement, or there thai bank requires residential evidence.Graham *******
@Andy *********
Andy, calm down, The authorities know pretty much everything about us. Try googling "common reporting standard" If u have a uk bank atm and you stuff it in an ATM in Thailand the uk and thai RD will know about it, they annually exchange information. If a person is resident in Thailand and receives remittance in Thailand in any form. this tells him that he must get a tin or get fined. **************************************************************************************
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/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf I renewed by 12 months extension of stay in jun, I made to show a statement from the bank covering the las 12 months. They easy extend this to us needing to show a receipt for a tax return. Most banks these days ask for a tin before an account is opened, the banks can easy be instructed to write to their clients telling them to come to the bank with their tin or there account is suspended, they do this in all EU countries because they are members of the OECD, as of this year so is Thailand and this is a driver for what is happening. People can sit on bar stools in Pattaya its just in future they may well need a tin to do so.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
Exactly. Maybe Thailand is not capable of putting all that information together today, but that doesn’t guarantee that they won’t be able to do it in five years.Who knows, some RD employee might consider to look back five years to find all the Andys, Grahams and Peters which may have been sitting on a bar stool.
Only time will tell, but thinking an ATM withdrawal hides your presence from governmental curiosity is very nearsighted and extremely 20th century.
1984 is already 40 years in the past and still people think they have any privacy… 😏
Reply to
Peter **********
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Graham *******
@Andy *********
This is what has actually changed Andy, the GOV have told the RD to fully implement the existing law, what remains to be seen is how they enforce the law, sloopy or tightly. ********************************************************************************
Michael *******
Dangerous assumption……..not an issue for those without commitments here they can jump on the next plane, not so easy for others, property owners and those with families - seek good advice, which doesn’t come in a bar
Andy **********
@Michael ******
good advice from who?? a Thai tax advisor?? They will be the ones scare mongering more than anyone, And you don't think those advisors have ulterior motives?? Any new tax rules and regulations seem to be targeting wealthy Thais, keeping money in banks outside of Thailand, waiting until the following tax year to avoid paying any tax, I personally don't think they are bothered about retirees not working, and just living in Thailand on their pension, and supporting the local economy, why are so worried about a tax return, your not going to get deported (I seen in another post it's a ฿2000 fine for not completing a tax return on time (I'm haven't confirmed that so please don't quote me on it) there has always been a need to complete a tax return, after staying in Thailand for more than 180 days, if say a retired person has never done one why start now.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Andy *********
Though the new guidelines (not new rules, by the way) are targeted at wealthy Thai, the immigrants unfortunately *can* get caught in the middle.Recently a bullet was fired at Trump, but someone else died from it.
This happens with almost every tax law in the world. They are targeted at a whole lot of people, but sometimes others get caught in the process.
Do you really think Thailand can fix its deficit with targeting the average bloke who lives on a small retirement?
Ha! Of course not. But John Doe will get caught in the middle and having all Johns (or 25% of them) hire a tax consultant will definitely stimulate the economy.
So even when the guidelines are meant to tax the wealthy, the side effect helps and the government will be dancing of joy because due to the change the contributions of farangs increased by 0.
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%, even without the tax man getting any additional money!Michael *******
Don’t plan on waiting to find out - personal choice, but not really responsible to encourage people to ignore it - herd mentality
Andy **********
@Michael ******
I wasn't encouraging everyone to ignore anything, I was simply stating facts, as in most people that aren't caught up in the system, mainly because they aren't working or don't have a business, those people will more than likely just be getting on with their lives, while all the rest are still chatting in these groups about tax returns.Michael *******
@Andy *********
facts ? the fact is is if we are resident (in Thailand for +180 days) we are obliged to register for tax and submit a return - to suggest that it will just go away is not great advice IMHO i have learned not to f##k with the tax man, and that comes from living in 9 different countries why would I treat Thailand differently ?Reply to
Michael *******
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Jo **********
@Michael ******
yes that’s true but the majority of people will not be affectedReply to
Jo **********
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Jo **********
@Andy *********
The truth is the Thai government does not care about people here on visas with regard to paying taxedAndy **********
@Jo *********
if people are on retirement visas and such like, and not working I agree, for anyone caught not paying tax, they would need to investigate that person, they don't automatically know everyone's personal circumstances, they can't look at everyone, most pensioners will just stay under the radar, and carry on living on there pension.Jo **********
@Andy *********
people are making a big deal of this. it’s not really a change.Reply to
Jo **********
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Jo **********
@Andy *********
finally a comment that makes senseReply to
Jo **********
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Cyndie ********
The confusing thing is what do they mean by money brought into Thailand.
I have a thai bank account with the required amt of money. I do not touch it and i do not add to it
I get cash out of atm. Will atm money count? I understand it does not but i do not know if that is true
I have a thai bank account with the required amt of money. I do not touch it and i do not add to it
I get cash out of atm. Will atm money count? I understand it does not but i do not know if that is true
Cyndie ********
I will just wait it out for now and see how it unfolds. We all have choice. I chose Thailand over spain and Portugal primarily because of tax laws. If they tax me, i have other choices and will be gone. I love thailand and it is not the only tropical paradise.
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Cyndie *******
There are many stories about how the “evil Thai tax man” is ready to grab everything you own but most of that belongs in Disneyland.Basically, in layman’s words, Everything you already paid tax for gets untaxed here (for people from countries with tax treaties).
There’s nothing weird about this, except that some will be hurt. Most will not. Old savings have probably been taxed in your original country and current income will probably also be taxed there.
There are some exceptions and it’s for your original country to make sure you are protected. An example of such protection is very visible in the dta with USA. Other countries will amend when necessary and follow. Nothing to be paranoid about.
Graham *******
@Peter *********
Peter, I have never read anything anywhere saying that countries will be changing their DTA to be in line with America. Nearly all pensions will be subject to Thai tax even though there are DTA on pensions in their home countries. Important to remember proof of income is required simply saying something will not be accepted, collect your reicepts, estimate your home tax liability, calculate your Thai tax liability and subtract the 2.Reply to
Graham *******
Reply
Graham *******
@Cyndie *******
if u are standing in thailand and you receive money by electronic transfer or Wize or western union or credit card usage or atm withdrawal or you pony the money over the border or you carry gold bars in your pockets or rolex watches. These are considered inward remittance. You next question is will they catch me. Remains to be seen what measures they will use to detect these. There is a proposal, as yet not law that even money which is paid to a foreign account must be declared as income (global). Even though the Thais do not have easy access to foreign banks account if this law is passed, they will have and may request to see account details from any previous years to detect fraud.Radost **************************
@Graham ******
they have zero info about foreign accounts and no bank has the right to share informations. And you can't tax money transfers as Thailand would be cut off swift system. Ten millions transfers a day from outside Thailand how you want to check ? And Thailand not has the right ti tax income from non citizen learnt outside Thailand. And Thailand not has any chance to enforce it too. All the people who posting bullshit here never worked in government or tax office and don't know international law.Graham *******
When you say "they" who do you mean? Have you not heard of the "common reporting standard" if not google it. All banks have to share information by law. Thailand cut out of swift, why? ten of millions transferred everyday how to do check it? They us a computer, knuckle head! Thailand can do what it wants in its own country.
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Graham *******
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Andy ************
@Graham ******
Bring in wads of cash, accompany girlfriend to Super Rich, get her to exchange money to Thai baht under her name. Job done! 😂😂😂😂Graham *******
@Andy ***********
sure we are all looking at ways to get round these laws. Problem is if you get caught at the airport, psssst! Wanna buy a rolex or a gold bar! We are all waiting to see what anti avoidance methods they will try. Uner the CRS the Thais have access to our foreign bank details, there is a proposal to tax income in foreign banks even if it not brough into Thailand.Andy ************
@Graham ******
Not for Australian Tax Residents! 😂😂😂😂😂😂Graham *******
@Andy ***********
The proof is in the pudding. There may be some very difficult criteria to reach to be able to claim anything.Graham *******
@Andy ***********
gotta stick with it Andy?///Andy ************
@Graham ******
Yep. I'll be keeping my Australian Tax Residency. Keep myself out of the Thai Tax loop! I'll be paying zero income tax in ThailandPeter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Andy ***********
No need to be paranoid.Being careful and plan well is key.
But that is the same when crossing the street, even downunder.
Andy ************
@Peter *********
You've misread my comments. Any money I bring into Thailand is exempt taxation.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Andy ***********
Ok. Enough fairy tales. Do what you deem fit.I give up. Have a great evening, weekend, life.
We are now celebrating bro-in-law birthday so I have better things to do.
People, all, get informed and may the force be with you. Easy it is not.
Andy ************
@Peter *********
You're believing the fairy tales - your choice. I deal only with facts, and there's been enough information provided by Thailand Revenue (not Facebook "experts), that in my case, and probably thousands of others, all money remitted to Thailand is exempt from taxation.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTERGraham *******
@Andy ***********
so we won't see you very often, less than 180 days in fact.Andy ************
@Graham ******
I'll be here for more than 180 days, but I'll be a dual tax resident, so I'll use the DTA test to establish Australian Tax Residency, which for my situation is quite easy, and confirmed by Thailand Revenue. Plus any money I bring into Thailand is exempt taxation.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
Chances are he’s right, but some (those bringing in untaxed income from abroad) will.Most pensions are already taxed at (higher) foreign rates so they won’t be (additionally) taxed.
People with foreign future untaxed (three adjectives!) property sales could be in for an unpleasant surprise.
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
Afaik they are mainly going for the peeps with big money. But exactly those will have the least problems to bring in huge amounts with little pain.Buy a condo in any foreign country and spend 186 days in that condo every five years to interrupt being tax resident. Then, in that year bring in the monies and they are home-free.
Regular Johns won’t be doing this, but if I risked being charged 35% of a huge fortune I would definitely consider.
(No, I am not even near that category, even though I am ducking below 180 days this year for tax reasons)
Graham *******
@Peter *********
Would be so easy to start auditing people. Just get the banks to request source of funds for all inward remittances then forward to the RD. Very easy task for the banks to search their database anually.Graham *******
@Peter *********
Thats exactly what i will do except that i will not buy a condo i will just go on holiday 18 times in one year transfer enough for 4 years then repeat in another 4 years. You just need the exit stamps to prove you left for 180 days, only way to be certain, if the global tax occures and it will, last man out, put the cat out, everybody will leave.Cyndie ********
@Graham ******
yes there will be a mass exodus gor those of us who are not married to thai people and then maybe some of them tooAndy ************
@Cyndie *******
There will no mass exodus because retirees will not be taxed!Cyndie ********
@Andy ***********
mass exodus only if they are which i am betting we will be finePeter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Cyndie *******
No mass exodus at all, despite the nuisance of having to fill out only one more form per year.Andy ************
@Cyndie *******
There will be no mass exodus because nothing is going to happen with expatsReply to
Andy ************
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Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Cyndie *******
Technically anything you take from an atm and anything you buy using a foreign credit card is considered “bringing into Thailand”.Enforcing this is an entirely different thing, even though Thailand is setting up information exchange with many other countries as part of their desire to become a member of the OECD.
That includes information exchange with most European countries, USA, Canada, Oz and multiple other countries in e.g. South-America and SE Asia.
Shane *****
@Peter *********
incorrect. An attorney did an interview on the law and specifically carved out atm withdrawals. Of course he could have been wrong.Reply to
Shane *****
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Angelo ***********
@Cyndie *******
Is it income? Then technically yes. Do you seriously believe they care? If you have income outside of Thailand: why are you not volunteeringly taxing it in Thailand, instead of in the other country?Cyndie ********
@Angelo **********
us is already taxing me on my incomeReply to
Cyndie ********
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Roman **********
Let’s see how and if its enforced on foreigners
Michael *******
@Roman *********
visa renewal - they can require a tax clearance cert - I couldn’t get my money out of South Africa as a non resident without it…….and tax does not go awayRoman **********
@Michael ******
That would be interesting, requiring a tax clearance certificate now for obtaining a residency certificate.That would certainly complicate living in Thailand
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Roman **********
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John **********
@Roman *********
it's enforced in the same way it is other countries if you don't only pay tax out of a salary. You fill in a tax return and if the tax man has any questions they'll get back to you. The penalties for not declaring your income can be fairly severe. The onus is on you to comply, not with the Thai Revenue DepartmentGraham *******
@Roman *********
Thats the big issue Roman. Once again you can see the short narrative proposed by the admin of this group. Yes, you will pay no tax on income prior to 2024, but only if you can supply satisfactory evidence to support your claim. Simply thinking this is enough. This part of the story will be talked about for years to come.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
I don’t see an admin of this group in the discussion. Where did you see one of the admins participate?Graham *******
@Peter *********
Hmmm!Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
I am not an admin of this group, if that’s what you were trying to write! 🤣🤣🤣Reply to
Peter **********
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Mark **********
@Graham ******
Thailand is doing everything to attract Visitors with the introduction of new visas Etc. if Foreigners that are retired are taxed on pension / or source of income there would be a mass exodus.Roman **********
@Graham ******
Yea, people are looking for simple answers for a topic that even the tax experts cant get a firm answer on.Its very circumstantial and open to interpretation. So much conflicting information from even the government.
Im also doubtful how the Thai tax office could process such returns apart from blindly accepting most returns on good faith.
My tax situation is so complicated im paying close to USD$5k a year ontop of a part time book keeper to do my yearly returns and company audit. Already paying tax in 3 countries, don’t need a 4th !
They are walking a fine line if they stat enforcing returns on foreigners on non working visas. Many will just say ‘to hard’ and go overseas for the smoky season.
Jo **********
@Roman *********
thus far your response is most sensibleGraham *******
@Roman *********
There is a proposal to tax global income, so if u are resident in Thailand you would have to declare income even if u do not bring it in. This makes it even harder.Reply to
Graham *******
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Graham *******
You need to view the full picture, not just part.
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/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdfJohn ********
@Graham ******
So, if this is correct, pensions, which aren't classed as earned income are not liable for tax. Only thing that could be liable for tax with regard to pensions, may be interest and considering the low interest rates, unless your very wealthy pensioners nothing to be concerned about I reckon.Jacob *******
Thanks Graham, how would anyone know what year the money I take out of an ATM in Thailand was earned in? Maybe I only bring in money that was earned prior to January 1, 2024 for instance.
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Jacob ******
*You* would know and you are responsible for filling the tax return. Imagine this. You file 50k foreign income. In 2029 their IT somehow starts working and they figure out you brought 750k in.
Then it’s up to you to prove the surplus originated from prior savings and any smart tax man will check your savings and how they are reduced with money transfers.
I guess a good accountant would probably completely twist the mind of the tax department, especially for British because of their ‘alternative’ tax year (April to April).
Graham *******
@Peter *********
Ask yourself is a Thai CPA going to risk their license for a "doggy Falang"?Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
Do you really think you can only have a go at tax departments doing illegal things? Think again!I can almost dream most Dutch tax laws (studied tax laws) and have had *one* tax audit in 45 years.
That was the year when the audit thought he discovered a mistake. I started a discussion which he didn’t agree to and wanted to charge 145 guilders additional tax. 30 years ago, so current value would be some 300 Euro.
I contested in court, had fun there, and in the end they had to repay me 3,600 guilders tax plus legal cost. At current value some 7500 euro.
I was never audited again.
See, you need to operate within the borders of the law, but those borders, especially when it comes to finance and taxes, are extremely stretchable.
I’d really really really wish my country would have a different tax calendar, like UK. I’d have a ball with every tax audit.
That said, don’t overestimate tax “consultants”. There are some really good consultants out there (I worked a.o. for PWC - excellent firm!) but at least 75% of them are charlatans who don’t have a clue about math and taxes and only know half the rules (and forget to ask the proper questions when you ask them for advice).
Graham *******
@Peter *********
I have no intention of retain any tax consultant in Thailand, I keep my affairs so simple I do not need them. If I am heading into choppy seas, I will head to the airport with my calendar instead. I will have to pay a small amount of tax on my land sales that i do with owner finance but i have some very large capital gains coming and I will be non-resident for those, have not worked out if I bring the money in TH. 2025 and 2026 are going to show up how bad the situation is 2027 is anyone guess there may even be a military government by Then.Reply to
Graham *******
Reply
Graham *******
@Jacob ******
Its a matter for you to prove what you say. Keep records.Reply to
Graham *******
Reply
Tony ********
@Graham ******
and basically if you remove 2024 from the screenshot, you get the old rules that have been in place for years.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Tony *******
You missed it. Filing for 2028 will not consider income from 2027 or earlier if you became tax resident in 2028.Think about it!
It’s all about when you become tax resident.
Tony ********
@Peter *********
agree, but my comments having nothing to do with becoming a tax resident, they were about the flyer row 1, the assumption being you were a tax resident last year remitting money, and that money was earnt in a year prior to that where you were also a tax resident.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Tony *******
Assumptions don’t help when filing tax returns. Don’t assume anything…You assumption that I was a tax resident in any year is just plain wrong.
Reply to
Peter **********
Reply
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Tony *******
The difference being that under the old guidelines you could keep your income in your home country even though you were already tax resident, and then send it to Thailand tax free as “savings” in the next year.That guideline has now been limited to savings from years before you became tax resident.
Tony ********
@Peter *********
not quite right, 'became a tax resident' has always been the case (for exclusion of tax), its now 'before 2024'. That is it used to be money earnt before jan 1st prior to remittence tax year was exempt, (floating year), and now its money earnt before 1st Jan 2024 prior to remittence tax year is exempt, (fixed year). Obviously if you werent tax resident when you remitted its exempt anyway.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Tony *******
Next year it will be “before 2025”. They won’t consider income from 2024 taxable for those who become Thailand tax resident in 2025.
They won’t consider income from 2025 taxable income for those who become tax resident in 2026.
And so on.
Tony ********
@Peter *********
its not about becoming tax resident. That is quite clear and has not changed. Any money remitted in the year prior to becoming a tax resident is and always has been excluded from tax.The change where 2024 is mentioned is for tax residents, if for the tax year your reporting, if you can prove any remitted money was gained/earned prior to
***
/24 it is tax exempt. The previous rule didnt have a fixed year. Eg filiing in 2022, for remitence in 2021, if it was earnt prior to ***
/21 it was exempt. Now if filing in 2028 for remitence in 2027 it is only exempt if earned before ***
/24 (not ***
/26 old rule).Reply to
Tony ********
Reply
Graham *******
@Tony *******
The only thing which has changed so far is the gov have instructed the RD to IMPLEMENT THE RULES on all from 1st jan. ********************************************************************************
Reply to
Graham *******
Reply
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
That merely adds no and no to income earned before 1 Jan.No additional information in your picture.
Graham *******
@Peter *********
Your post is deliberate say "No Tax" you are deliberately showing am incomplete narrative, my post says you will pay tax in certain circumstances. As the admin of this group we will be watching you closely now.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Graham ******
You will *not* pay income tax on income earned in any year *before* you became tax resident.Nick ************
@Peter *********
so how do you prove you earned the money before it became taxable in Thailand?Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Nick ***********
You show your bank balance per 31 Dec. How is this a question?Make sure you have an official letter from the bank, official bank paper, etc.
Nick ************
@Peter *********
your reply is senseless. I am living in Thailand off money I earned 20 years ago but have no way of proving it is not my monthly income. Think about it.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Nick ***********
Do you have the money in Thailand? Then you are not transferring into Thailand -> no taxed incomeDo you have the money in your origin country? Ask a letter from your bank stating the balance per Dec 31, 2023 -> no taxed income
Which part was too difficult to comprehend?
Nick ************
@Peter *********
you obviously have a very simple financial life. As for me I have rather more than just a current account to account for including property and various fixed term savings, pensions and various other investments all of which have changed in value constantly before and after dec 31st 2023. Look at my question again and think more carefully.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Nick ***********
Value doesn’t matter. Taxes are calculated on cash basis. Owning property doesn’t matter. Selling it, and bringing the money to Thailand makes it matter. You are making things too complicated.Nick ************
@Peter *********
fortunately the dual tax agreement that Thailand has with the UK makes it all irrelevant because anything taxed in the UK will not be taxed in Thailand. I'll be happy to give whatever financial documents are required so that they can spend hours working out I dont owe anything. It won't happen. One exception is my state pension which I will have paid directly into my Thai bank so it wont be taxed in UK. I beleive the Thai tax rate is lower than UK so I will be better off. Ih, and I read on one official post that the threshold for paying tax in Thailand is *****
0 baht a month; not sure about that one.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Nick ***********
The nuisance being that you still have to report your taxable income brought in from UK and after calculating Thai tax offset whatever you paid in UK.You’re right, in the end you may not need to pay anything, just like me (income from Netherlands) but the reporting requirement is just a nuisance.
Fun fact: Under the current DTA with Netherlands we can choose in which country we want to pay tax. When you send your Thai tax return to the Dutch tax man they may have to return every penny paid in Netherlands.
A new DTA was established and approval in Dutch parliament, but it hasn’t been signed by Thailand, so in 2024 Dutch people can still chose their ‘tax country’.
Nick ************
@Peter *********
currently I am bringing in £1500 a month to Thailand both to live off and qualify for my visa extension. That is simple enough. What I don't understand is how I prove that those transfers were .made with cash earned before 2024 as it all comes out of the same pot that my income from this year goes in to. My uk tax return will only account for this year's income.Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Nick ***********
PS You might be better off just reporting 18k taxable income and keep the savings (while documented) as they are. I bet your tax rate in UK is higher than the tax charge in Thailand and Thailand offers various reductions. Maybe you will want to keep those savings (for tax purposes) in UK so you can bring the whole amount in when some day you have unexpected cost.
Bringing it in in a single year will probably put you in the highest tax bracket, so still having that tax free reserve will come handy.
You need to calculate whether or not bringing savings or reporting taxable income is better for you.
YOU choose “which” money you bring in at which point, not the tax department. I have not seen any guidelines that such and such origins must be reported first.
But, whatever you choose, make sure you have properly documented it (according to *their* standards).
Peter **********
ORIGINAL POSTER@Nick ***********
Make sure you can demonstrate your savings per *****
/2023. If it was income in 2023 or earlier and you haven’t spent it already, then it’s in your bank.I assume you haven’t kept large sums under your mattress… 😉
You’ll need to keep track while you’re using it. So if you have 180,000 in your bank and you’re absorbing 18k per year (12 x 1.5k) then you’ll not report income during 10 years and keep documentation in a shoebox or something.
Note: Value of assets doesn’t help unless specific assets. E.g. you owned a building. Once purchased for 200k, per 31 Dec valued at 1 mln.
Tough luck. When you sell it for 1.1 mln and bring in the revenue the whole amount minus original payment (purchase and improvements) will be taxed. That’s 900k income. The value of the property per Dec 31 doesn’t matter.
Obviously this is a simplified example and there are plenty ways to confuse things, but for Facebook readers sake I like to keep things simple. 😉
Reply to
Peter **********
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