Answered2 years ago
What are the tax implications for investment funds in Thailand for expats?
Does anyone know how Thailand looks at our investment funds, as far as taxes?
Answer summary
In Thailand, expats are considered tax residents if they stay for more than 180 days in a year, and are subject to Thai income tax on global income brought into the country. The tax owed will depend on the nature of the income (salary, pension, or investment) and existing agreements between Thailand and the expat's home country, such as double taxation agreements (DTAs), which can prevent double taxation. While many expats may not end up paying additional taxes due to these agreements, it's crucial for them to be aware of their obligations and possibly consult with tax experts.
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Thomas ********
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Barry *******
What if you bring cash in to buy a condo. Are you paying a double tax buying the condo
Will ************
@Barry ******
if you have to sell that condo and want to repatriate the proceeds of sale you can’t as you have no proof of initial source of fundsBarry *******
@Will ***********
Sorry you've lost me. I feel like it's going off topic a bit about Thai taxation. But in response to your comment, wouldn't you have the proof of sale that you sold the thai condo? Therefore it's your money you can do wire it wherever you like?
Will ************
@Barry ******
you need proof of where money originated, cash doesnt prove that
John ********
Talk to a Thai tax attorney not the experts on Face Book
Greg *****
I see as of 2 days ago Thai parliament, has bought into law tax evasion(non disclosure) is now a criminal offense. Perhaps there is a long term plan after all
Bob *******
Totally confused with it all
Will ************
As Thailand has signed up to CRS they have access to your other countries tax returns and bank accounts. You pay the difference between what is already paid and what becomes due in Thailand due to the different tax bands and percentages. It isn’t a new law in Thailand just the full interpretation of the existing ones so nothing needs to be approved by the Thai government it’s up to the revenue department to just go for it.
Greg *****
@Will ***********
spot on Will.. DTA’s ensure’s duplicate tax is not paid, but if tax rate is higher in Thailand then you pay the difference.
Dennis *********
@Will ***********
that's not true either. If your country has a DTA with thailand. Under almost all scenarios no tax is going to be due as thailand has a formal signed DTA which is a legal binding document
Todd *********
@Dennis ********
this is completely incorrectBart **************
Either dive into the tax treaties between Thailand and the country where you own those investments and the country where you are or could be considered a tax resident as well besides Thailand, or consult an expert.
Dennis *********
one has to look at their countries "dual tax agreement" to have any clue to that answer.... and no after 180 days it's not a foregone conclusion you have to pay Thai tax... that's just fake news, many like to repeat saying. you may have some paperwork, but unlikely any Thai taxes are due.
Todd *********
@Dennis ********
what you are misunderstanding is how clear the rule is. At 180 days you become tax resident of Thailand. And legally must file. You income will dictate what you have to pay. As well as existing tax treaty with your home nation.
Dennis *********
@Todd ********
completely incorrect. The utube attorney discussed that it all depends on your countries DTA agreement and you possibly have to file. I only read the US DTA and these have been in place for decades. Pensions are specifically called out as not taxable, however there are like more than a dozen types of money/income discussed for USA. Thailand is not looking to throw these all away. Unless you've read the one that applies to you, you are very misinformed. These are legal agreements and how many articles/discussions have you seen that thailand abandoned them? Again is quite possible one will have to submit a return and check box saying you are exempt. .these are 2 way agreements as thailand also has their own citizens abroad in many many countries either working laborers or wealthy thais. Thailand can not just disregard these agreements as they are legally binding. It also clearly states if you are taxed in one country you can not be taxed.in the other, and the irs has to allow a write off if taxed in the thailand. Please go and actually read your DTA and then register to that utube and notice exactly what the attorney is saying. Again he said "You may have to file, but any taxes are going to go by your DTA "
Lawrence *******
@Todd ********
Yawn. Disappointed such an intellectual genius didn't have a much better and measured retort. He pointed out he was American.
Duh! Now who's exhibiting symptoms of senility? Go to bed young man while us older folks, dinosaurs, somehow continue to flourish and thrive. Nice try, though. I give you a C+ for effort.
Todd *********
@Lawrence ******
at no point did I mention anything about USA. None. And could care less what his nationality is, as it was irrelevant to my comment. Go to bed. Your senility is setting in.Lawrence *******
@Todd ********
You directed your commentary to an American who was pointing out that certain pensions in the USA were not assessable under the treaty. You informed him that he was in for a rude awakening if he thought he would not be paying Thai tax.On another note, most Americans, also, do not give a shit about Canada or Canadians in general, let alone your DTA and supposed expertise. Have a nice day.
Todd *********
@Lawrence ******
lol. What makes you think this post is in any way related to Americans? Such a bunch of absolute dimwits at times. Nobody else gives a 💩 about your tax agreement. We all have one with our own nations. Welcome to the real world. And back to the actual issue at hand, yes - people need to file. Earned income may indeed be taxable in Thailand, and the details of your respective treaties will further enunciate that. Have a nice day
Lawrence *******
@Todd ********
You are correct. People need to file. Earned income from salary, investments, rental income, etc, may need to be paid in Thailand following taxes paid in the home country. That being said, many types of income are protected by treaty. The USA prohibits by treaty, sections 20 and 21 specifically, Thailand from ever taxing Social Security, military retirement, veterans benefits, state and federal pensions. Most Americans living in Thailand receive the lion-share, if not all of their monthly income, from the nonassessable income from the sources enumerated above. Very few Americans will be impacted. Those with IRA's, 401K's and actual earned income, I agree, will be. That being said, you are a Canadian national. Why are trying to be an expert on the USA/Thailand Dual Taxation Agreement Treaty? Americans need 0 advice from unknowledgeable Canadians.
Have a nice day.
Todd *********
@Dennis ********
my statement is accurate. And you sir, are in for a serious wake up call. Best of luck.
Dave *********
@Dennis ********
Why no tax due? Can you say that for certain?Dennis *********
@Dave ********
did you read your countries dual tax agreement with thailand?? Guessing not. There was a utube lots of people talking about with a thai tax attorney. Seems many didn't pickup that he says many times, well you have to go to your countries dual tax agreement. Thailand had DTAs with almost 90 countries currently. Thailand is pulling all the stops out to get people there. The idea they're going to break 90 DTAs and also create a mass exodus at the same time doesn't even make senseDave *********
@Dennis ********
I did read that you wouldn't be liable to pay tax on already taxed income yes.
Kool *******
All Thailand is concerned about is that appropriate taxes have been paid.
Tim *********
Thailand is considering taxing the global income of those who spend more than 180 days here in any year. But right now the law is interested only in money you bring in to Thailand wherever it is earned. It doesn't matter whether the money is salary, pension, investment income, capital gains ... if you bring money to Thailand and stay 180 days, that money is assessable for Thai income tax. That said, tax already paid in another country will off-set tax assessed here, if that country has an DTA with Thailand
Jo **********
@Tim ********
i doubt any legitimate country would have a NDA with Thailand. Disclosing information is mandatory in most casesLawrence *******
@Tim ********
SSA, military, state and federal pensions, including veterans disability benefits, are NOT assessable under the specific sections 20 and 21 of the DTA Treaty between the USA and Thailand, regardless of whether these benefits are taxed in the USA or not. Read the treaty. Thai bureaucrats can NOT arbitrarily add to, change, modify, or ignore the terms set out in the DTA treaty. The USA and other western nations would jump down Thailand's throat with both feet if the Thai establishment tried to arbitrarily void sections of any established DTA treaty, leading to potentially severe financial and economic consequences for Thailand. Treaties are not a one way street. That being said, you are free to espouse your views. I, for one, will ignore them, and NOT at my peril.Andy ************
@Lawrence ******
Correct. Unfortunately there's a lot of the so-called "experts" ignoring the international treaties. Most DTAs include this condition relating to pensions.Andy ************
@Tim ********
That's fine. Thankfully Australia had a forward thinking treasurer back in the days when the DTA was formulated and he went out of his way to ensure pensions were protected!Tim *********
@Andy ***********
The Dual Taxation Convention between Thailand and the UK doesn't not exclude state, personal or occupations pensions from Thai assessability, when imported to Thailand. I don't claim knowledge of any other country's DTA and I decline @Lawrence ******
's invitation for me to read the USA's
Mark ********
Thailand is screaming out for/begging tourists expats and the like to come come come! Do you really think they will tax us! Never gona happen. They are pi**ing in the wind. Expats would depart in droves..myself included.
Andy ************
@Mark *******
No-one's going anywhere. All this fear-mongering is being fuelled by tax accountants touting for business. The government has just released the DTV designed solely to get people into the country spending money. The last thing they're going to do is scare off long-term residents already spending money! The whole thing is so funny! 😂
Nick ************
@Mark *******
sort of think you are right but best to be prepared.Nick ************
@Tim ********
income earned before end if 2023 is not taxable in Thailand. Good record keeping essentialAndy ************
@Nick ***********
I have a closed super account from which I draw money to bring to Thailand. That is totally tax exempt.Andy ************
@Nick ***********
My super fund is tax free. Super funds can provide a letter which certifies your balance at the critical date. No problemNick ************
@Andy ***********
my issue is getting the paperwork to prove I had the savings and investments prior to this year. Some if my investments are tax free in UK so I dont know how that works.
Neil ******
@Andy ***********
I’m not frightened of anything. I already pay tax in 2 countries as legally obligated. I will continue to do so regardless of newly implemented laws. You’re singing a different tune now than you were an hour ago. You went from “the revenue department isn’t looking for me” to “I am not obligated to pay tax because of a DTA”. Even if you’re not obligated to pay tax, you are obligated to report your income if you are a tax resident and if you are not reporting the income, that is tax evasion. Tax avoidance is a legal strategy to plan for non-assess ability of tax. For instance, only staying 179 days in country. Or, organization of a corporate entity in a country with favorable tax rates. It is not simply not reporting your income as legally obligated because you personally feel a DTA doesn’t obligate you to pay tax. You may never raise any flags with the revenue department, but that doesn’t change what you’re doing. Furthermore, this is not a media speculation. There are drafts of the amendments to the code. That’s how the media has the information to report it. You’re free to believe what you want to believe, but you aren’t entitled to make up your own facts.
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Andy ************
@Neil *****
My tune has not changed. The Revenue Department is not looking for me, because they'll get nothing out of me. My income has already been taxed so I have no income which is within the range of Thai Revenue. I can fill in a tax return with a series of 0's if they so wish. That's easy. Somehow I doubt that's ever going to happen!Andy ************
@Neil *****
That's what I've been doing for years. Never required to file a tax return. Can't see it changing any time soonNeil ******
@Tim ********
in prior years it apppied if it was brought in the same year it was earnesTim *********
@Neil *****
2024 is the first year it will apply to earnings brought from overseas. 2025 is the first year many of us will have to fill in that form.Andy ************
@Neil *****
I don't think that way at all, but that's the only category of expats which concerns me. I have no reason to be concerned about others. If they are trying to dodge paying taxes around the world, they should be investigated.Neil ******
@Andy ***********
why do you think retirees are the only foreigners living here?Andy ************
@Neil *****
Most retirees have zero tax to pay. Thai Revenue knows this. There's going to be no requirement for immigrationAndy ************
@Tim ********
Never going to happen! Could have happened at any time in the last twenty years, not going to happen now.Neil ******
@Tim ********
that would be nice. There are lots of foreigners who are tax residents not submitting their reports. They should be denied extension of stay.Tim *********
@Andy ***********
No. You are obligated to fill in a tax return listing the money you bring into Thailand. And then producing evidence to show what tax you have already paid in other countries. That may or may not leave you with a tax liability in Thailand.Everything up to here is fact already. Here is where I'll speculate. Thai authorities will become concerned at the level of both ignorance and tax evasion on the part of foreign residents. The government will then instruct Immigration to seek evidence of tax returns filed when foreigners apply for an extension of stay
Andy ************
@Tim ********
Thailand will never tax global earnings of low-key expats. This is just more media bulldust designed to get clicks.
Rok ********
@Andy ***********
a lot of countries tax worldwide earned income and Thailand is / will be moving in the same direction.Andy ************
@Rok *******
That's good. For untaxed income so they should! Sadly for Thailand, all my income has already been taxed, so I'm not really a good candidate! 😂Tim *********
@Andy ***********
Read in official sites what the Thai Revenue leaders have said and stop spreading misinformation. I won't give you the links or you'd just accuse me of wanting clicks. Seek it out for yourselfAndy ************
@Mark *******
Exactly! And if they do come knocking, just pass them a 1000 baht note and everything will be forgotten! 😂Mark ********
@Andy ***********
Authority here in the land of sun have trouble tying their shoelaces. I cant see them implementing anything re tax.Andy ************
@Mark *******
You have to be careful with some of these fear-mongers. They're all trying to push the mugs into "tax experts". This is the latest ad on Facebook. A simple tax return, which in all likelihood won't be needed! "Earlybird Special". Sad thing is, so many will get roped into this scamMark ********
@Andy ***********
Yup. Im with you on this.Andy ************
@Neil *****
It's called Tax Avoidance, not Tax Evasion, and it's totally legal. You may be frightened of media speculation, but I'm not. I'm tax resident in another country which gets first call on income. Under DTA, Thailand has to take its place in the queue, and there won't be anything left! 😂Neil ******
@Andy ***********
you’re confusing what the intent is now vs what will be permissive. If the global taxation law is passed, it doesn’t matter if you’re Thai or foreigner if you’re a tax resident and the revenue department will have the ability to go after non reporting and remitting foreigners. Enforcement can change instantaneously with a change of revenue department policy, which could be a new minister appointed. You’re looking at this superficially while chastising those who are actually considering what a change in the law can result in. Good luck with your tax evasion.Andy ************
@Tim ********
No need to. It's all hyperbole. Thai Revenue is looking for untaxed money hidden in offshore accounts by wealthy Thais, not expats pension funds already taxed. A lot of fear mongering by "tax experts" touting for business. I won't be conned the way so many people have
Neil *********
Hi Gary. It depends on the investment fund and jurisdiction, with for example dividends and also accounts etc
The 180 day rule to be considered a tax resident is set in stone however it’s about the financial planning then, this is where having a proper qualified and experienced adviser can help do not fall for the ones here who have never advised in proper jurisdictions.
Ask for qualifications and experience.
Happy to help with that.
The 180 day rule to be considered a tax resident is set in stone however it’s about the financial planning then, this is where having a proper qualified and experienced adviser can help do not fall for the ones here who have never advised in proper jurisdictions.
Ask for qualifications and experience.
Happy to help with that.
Jeff ********
you have to be in country more than 180 days a year to be considered a tax resident. Income is income no matter what after that. You'll be taxed based on what you report.
Bart **************
@Jeff *******
don't forget to mention the tax treaties, which actually determine where tax is owed. It may not be in Thailand even though you stay for 180 days.
Ken ***********
@Jeff *******
currently, Thailand only taxes funds that are brought into Thailand, so income is not income for Thai tax purposes.Tim *********
@Ken **********
" .... so income is not income ... " has to be the dumbest argument I've heard for a while
Ziggy ********
Bart **************
@Ziggy *******
where did I spray anything socialist?Ziggy ********
@Bart *************
don't spray socialist propagandaBart **************
@Tim ********
by the way, quoting only half of someone's sentence can even make the earth look flat or Trump look acceptable as president. Quote someone or not, but don't make statements up like this.Bart **************
@Tim ********
did he say it was logical? We're talking Thailand here, and by the way he just quoted a source proposing dropping that reasoning.Jeff ********
@Ken **********
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Dave *********
@Bart *************
Good to know it's only a proposal, I was under the impression the rules had been set out and only the implementation was outstanding.Bart **************
@Dave ********
no, not yet. This is a proposal like he says.Dave *********
@Ken **********
Didn't it come into effect in January this year, pending how it's going to operate? If at all.Jeff ********
@Ken **********
please do your researchKen ***********
@Jeff *******
this is proposed but nit in effectTim *********
@Jeff *******
or what they uncover, if they should investigate you
Ling *****
@Tim ********
try investigating exchange booths that don't ask for ID, no chance.
Peter **********
While I’m at it, the easiest way to cover more than 90% of immigrants is simply add some fee to the visa extension at 2nd year or more. Done. Problem solved.
Peter **********
@Ling ****
Well… You’re wrong about that. Not reporting your income is tax fraud, since the tax laws say that you are the initiator not anyone else.So your statement that you were safe 20 years might be true, but are you willing to bet on… say… the next 10 years?
They are hunting for money and anyone under the new guidelines, preferably rich Thai, are in the looking glass. Unfortunately enough, some day sooner or later that may include you and me.
Simple trick: Require copy of tax returns at visa extension. Bye bye Ling. 😉
Ling *****
@Tim ********
it's not evading if they don't ask, just saying.Tim *********
@Ling ****
Well done announcing your intention to evade Thai income tax law
Bradley *********
@Tim ********
they haven’t been able to manage Thai people and their income. There’s no infrastructure in place to accomplish any of this. This is a big nothing burger that will never happen.Ling *****
@Tim ********
it's not racist to state facts. You do realise that using vapes and standing on the back of baht buses is illegal but everyone still does it. The vape sales lady just left the restaurant I'm having lunch in whilst in Thailand.Tim *********
@Bradley ********
The previous 2 decades are irrelevant, when the Thai government decided to apply their tax rules to foreign residents with effect from 2024Dave *********
@Bradley ********
Thai people don't need to apply for an annual visa extension though... Don't count your chickensBradley *********
@Tim ********
oh wait you’re one of the global warming sheep. I didn’t know senior citizens were that gullible. I thought it was only millennials with dreadlocks that fell for that BS. Oh look, shocking he’s an antisemite too.Bradley *********
@Tim ********
the truth is racism? Are you some DEI coffin dodger?Thais generally don’t pay taxes, there’s no tax returns that they file, no April 15th deadline and there is no infrastructure set up to monitor it. But go ahead and report everything you make on your pension to the Thai government so you can pay tax. I’ve lived here over two decades and know what I’m talking about.
John *********
@Tim ********
it’s true nonetheless.Tim *********
@Bradley ********
today's first casual racist chips in to abuse our hosts .....Jeff ********
@Tim ********
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