I'm first timer Thailand my gf ask me send money..or she just using me ? Pls help
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TLDR : Answer Summary
The post discusses concerns from an individual who is new to Thailand and is questioning whether their Thai girlfriend is using them for money. Comments from other users overwhelmingly suggest that she is likely asking for financial support as a means of exploiting the relationship. Many commenters recommend not sending money, with some saying that genuine relationships shouldn't start with financial requests. Other users share personal anecdotes and emphasize the possible patterns of exploitation common in relationships where money is exchanged.
Jason ******
ORIGINAL POSTER
All Tha girls are users there got no feeling
Carl *****
Tell her chuff off.she wants only your money
Dray *******
You didn't even need to ask the question. You know the answer.....
Andrew ***********
Well maybe you should have listened to the advise back in 2022 and you would've be asking any questions today.
Dimitris ************
Some tips to all:
- ask her to be friends in Facebook. Any excuses must raise red flag
- call her outside the time patterns. If time difference make the effort to call jet at bet 7pm, 8pm, 10pm 11.30pm
- notice how long the conversations last. Usually at the beginning they are long and many weeks later they are only a couple of minutes
what a load of crap! There is millions of thai girls/ladies that will not do that .. or do you want to ask my wife what she thinks about reading your disrespectful misogynistic comment ? And she reads perfectly well this comment. She have a master from UK .. sad to hear all these prejudices of a millions of Thais not in that business operations of Farang scamming !
true becuz they just meet the girls in bars not hospitals and corporates
Reply to
Ghurair ************
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Mho ****
No no
Patrick ************
Nooooooo.
The right woman wouldn't ask.
Patrice ************
A not stay in Thailand not really life hire a go to Philippines borders now open 10 February
Stacey *******
Is this a real question 😂⁉️
Sad ********
Don't contact her at set times, be implusive. If you don't get to speak to her when you ring her, then you need to be slightly concern, if the excuses start to flow, then your concern should be highten.
Pat *********
Use your feelings as a matter between two people. Other people didn't know her. No one can help you figure that out if the person doesn't know your girlfriend yet. She will use you or ask for help. You should be able to feel it for yourself. Good luck
Mark ******
Basically, it depends on where you had met her....Did you meet her in the bar areas or entertainment districts? Then that relationship will likely fail! She is likely doing that to several Western guys and making quite a lucrative business off scamming Western guys who really mean well. This is a well-known scam among Thai girls from the entertainment districts.
There are a lot of great Thai girls who are not from the entertainment area.....great wife-making material.
Can you meet a great Thai girl from the entertainment district....SURE! But the chances of doing so are so slim that I personally would NOT do it!
If that is the case.....then tread very carefully!
How long are you with her? What does she need it for? What does she do for a living? Every situation is different.
Irina ***********
Is she beautiful? Are you using her beauty? 🙂
Seán *******
If you want to get really robed marry a woman in the west they are very expensive whors who take all including your house and children and demand ransom to see your children.
James *******
*****
bht is a lot of money in Thailand!!!!! Remember the average wage for a Thai person working as a waitress or 7-11 is 8 to 10 thousand a month! If she is a supervisor or manger she’ll get about
average bar girl is making 50k a month… So it’s probably a months wages.
Reply to
Karim ***************
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Luc ********
Okay. To everyone. My ex for 13 years, also asked for ‘support’……. After getting her and her daughter over to Europe, paying for her house, basically talking care of her everything……She left me once she got Belgium nationality. If you don’t want to join the Pattaya flying club, Than please take a girl that doesn’t ask for money, same I found now. It really feels much better and more real. Good luck to you all, and may god bless you…
Daniela *********
My God. They don’t have soul they care just about money but until you men are so ...
I don’t know what follows the so…. But, Some have a soul, and thank god. I found her after 3 years travelling the country.
Reply to
Luc ********
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Rob ******
Send
Stu **********
She's not your GF
David ***
Have seen many men comes to Bangkok goes to bar / pubs at Sukhumvit Soi 4 ( Nana ), Soi cowboy ( soi 23 ), patpong ( silom ) and pattaya and Phuket.
Offer drinks to bar girls and finally fall in love with romantic talkings ( broken heart guys ) and repeatedly comes back & more comes closer, finally thought that those are their GF AND the rest is above example.
Girl friend is yours, you didn't shared how much you enjoyed!!! But you come to ask here how you handle your GF, isn't it funny and childish!!! doubtful how old you are ?
Nigerian prince just emailed me , guys gonna send a million bucks to my bank account !! I can hardly wait ! Just Peed my pants !
Reply to
Carl ********
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Carl ********
Send her all your money !! Shes probably got a sick buffalo that's need immediate attention and a brother or family member in the hospital that needs an operation !! Send money !!!
Marshall *********
You have more than you need, just give the extra money to her. Never know, her water buffalo might be sick.
Ghurair ************
Get urself an educated lady with a good job not a bar girl
ณิชา **********
I'm Thai girl. I think you were deceived.
Herve ********
better love if you send money
Owen *********
send what feels comfortable and doesn’t burden you, there is no set figure amount,
i would say if it’s new not a lot until you meet as your life changes so will the money involved.
problem is majorly of the advice you will receive will be from people who have been fucked over. and set a limit because they have that fear of it happening again.
not all girls are bad not all are good
don’t let the excitement of love cloud your vision, or you will miss the signs of a bad girl,
I never forget when my friend told the story about the Soi
****
girl in Bangkok was walking up and down a bar with her phone all day trying to organise her nightmare as all 5 supportive “boyfriends” was coming to Bangkok same time. They all wanted her service and presence.. she was mega stressed and went from one hotel/Condonto another …. but hey, up to you ! (BTW Happily married with a Thai. She support me ! It’s my CEO. Choose wisely)
Made the mistake of thinking she really loved me after we met and spent one month together. How dumb was I? We met on thaifriendly. After spending 80 000 thb on her I tried to send less one month. Immediately she started emotional blackmail on me to get more. That's when I realized she will never be happy and always want more and more money. So I left her. What did I in the end get out of it? Well to be frank. One month of best boom boom I had in my life. Money comes money goes but it was the last time I will get involved with a Thai lady for anything more than ST.
John *******
You sound like that guy with elephantiasis or whatever on his leg who was later considered a fraud and kicked out by immigration who originally felt sorry for the guy. He got a bunch a money from the Thais who felt sorry for him and went out boozing and having a good time and was caught!
Tomas Mattsson u know she done thay many times. Thaifreindly is 100% hookers and girls looking to milk men. Better to come here and pretend to be poor. Meet a normal girl and treat her good. Then you will know.
That's entirely untrue. I met my now Thai wife on TF, almost 4 years married, we live in Australia, she has a PR visa, works 5 days a week and contributes quite well to our living expenses. I will admit quite a few are as you say...but how many "genuine" farang men are on TF?
How much you have paid? And do you know her real name and last name and address, or may be bank account...
John **********
GF are many if you want. Keep money and give her knowledge to make money.
Long term better as the other a trap until you walk away.
I'm sure you have by this point...the crying, need for family member, I have no money for food, no rent money, the list goes on....pulls on all the heart strings!
Remember ~ teach the fisherman to fish! He will not be hungry and be able to provide!!
John **********
Remember 1000Bht from you during holiday. 12 months from others =
*****
Bht not bad in economy!!
Reply to
John **********
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Neville ********
Why ask people for advice on this your asking the question means you don't trust her 😂🤣
If you don't pay rent in Thailand, you'll get evicted. But if you don't live in Thailand, you really don't need an apartment in Thailand anyway. Whatever you do, don't fall for the sick father trick. Search for "sick Thai father" on Google Images and see how many pics you can find. 😂
you should also reverse google image search any picture of sick water buffalo to make sure it's actually her sick water buffalo and not Somchai's
Reply to
Lynn ********
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Albert *******
There are people giving these money to their girls in Thailand
Paul ********
Duan **********
Lucky you only send not buy house for her 😁
Chris *****
😄
Tracy ******
As a woman I would never ask for money, would go without or work 16 hr days but would not ask for anything. Don’t do it. She won’t love or respect you more for it.
depends on how much she asked for and why if she was a bar girl and wanted out but needed to send her family some then and a bit for her self then why not it happens a lot they are forced to sell their bodies and cant earn any other way
It depends on how you feel about her ? The Thai Government have given their citizens no support whatsoever and business have been allowed to collapse without support Thai people are having a difficult time they certainly didn’t see the same support we in the UK received look if you can help it’s your choice
Luc ********
Unless you know her (situation) very well, and you offer to help her yourself…. You are being used.
Depends on you and the girl. You can trust in her or not ? And where you meet with her.
A-I-*****
We can do an investigation and find out.
Ayan *******
Using you
Roger **********
What you don't know is you are not alone ....she is probably collecting from others as well A juggling act of boyfriends...Or you are one of the few lucky ones. Both are possible just figure it out for yourself..
David *********
She's not your G/F, you are one of her customers, it's a business arrangement - no more or no less, there maybe quite a few of you in her life, you will be in the pecking order as to how much you send her,
Is she hot!!! Is she out of your league? How much is she looking for? You have to determine if the pay per play ratio is worth it. Thailand is filled with crusty old men supporting young ladies.
Mike ******
Girls are like crypto, you invest the money that you can afford to lose
Alexander ********
Better give her 100,000 in case 50,000 not a nuff to keep her Thai bf in manner there a customed to don't forget gold her birthday o mama very sick need more money 🤑🤑🤑🤑💰💰💰💰💰💰
Why do you need same woman go out and enjoy your self 50.000 that’s £12.000
Paul *********
No. Just no. If she's asking for 50,000 she is taking the piss. That should tell you what to do. She prob has another 10 guys online asking for more money from them.
Paul ************
Get shut
Paul ********
Tell her to f..k off
Ziggy *********
Save yourself the time & effort
I thought my ex was the one and that she was different.
Long story short, she loved my money more than me 😅
Iven ***********
Erwin **********
I did that from the start 13 years ago and we are now 10 years happily married and have a lovely daughter together so......trust your gut-feeling
Ronikerts ******
This is normal. Its only a start.
*****
too much. She will ask you more. Try to understand your relationship. Its whole up to you what u want. If I were you I will get rid of her. How often you visit her.
Absolutely do NOT give 50K/month and if she was asking for that amount. Run, do not walk, away as fast as you can. Delete all contact information, block, never talk with her again. She will try again with the next guy.
50 000 baht is way too much! A normal pay in Thailand is between 20-25 000 baht. I am living together with a thai woman and her first reaction was that the thai woman was using you that asks that much money
I think you know the answer to this one, treat it like gambling don’t spend more than you can afford to lose
Marc ************
Tell her to get a job at big C or central
Derek ***********
How did she survive before she met you?
John *******
Nah, she’s using you when she asks for money for her sick Water Buffalo
Derek ***********
Playing you like a sucker
Gordon *********
Scam possible
Mark **********
Always be skeptical, but life can be hard and in times of covid especially in Thailand with a government that has no regards for taking care of its people she could could genuinely need money ..But a few questions you need to know .
Why does she ask you and not friends and family?
Is she educated?
Where is she and her family from ?
Did you meet her in a bar or club where many freelancers go ? And if so, this is the biggest problem .
In most cases a good Thai girl will never ask for money , my partner has never asked me for money in 6years .
Bobby *********
Every Expat with a Thai chick I know sends money, it’s part of the deal, no money = no honey! You as a farrang, are expected to support her, it’s just the way it is…
I gave gf money 3 times to fix her car..it was a scam..not her car.she borrowed it from a friend...her own car is perfect...scam....
William ****************
Vikorn ***********
IMO if you have to ask, then you just answer your own question
辰*
i was with thai girl. i spend money on her. she was with me. but the day she left to her country. she never message me. dont send money. if relationship starts with money then will end soon.
Jeffrey ************
Up to you... make your own mind up.
Kevin ***********
Yes, For sure! It is a regular well known racket. They do it on thousands of guys. Don’t send money
Edgar ************
Have a wank 3 times in a row and then re-evaluate if you really want to send her money. I bet you wont do it.
Think with the big head not the little one
Philip **********
No you don’t have to send her money this month. I already sent her 20,000 Bhat. She love me long time.
Brian *****************
Many genuinely are looking for a stable life and can be very loving and caring, I know my gf is.
I am away a lot and support her and when I get to see her it is the best time of my life.
You can’t take your money with you so let it give you happiness while you are alive.
that’s called I give her the money she gave me something back ... you called that happiness 😅 .. As long she doesn’t give some happiness to someone else when you are away 🤣🤣
you are ignorant, you know nothing about my relationship and your mind lives in a sewer for the way you think.
Reply to
Brian *****************
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Per-e ***************
You all are forgetting that some posters on here are elderly. Of course they'll share money for happiness. Would a fit 21 year old dude do this? No. Let the elderly people do their thing. It doesn't mean you have to do the same.
you know nothing yes a lot are gold digger but also their are quite a lot honest girls looking for a caring relationship sadly your destined to be a sad fuck all your life im now happily with my thai wife for over 20 years and shes as honest as they come
Jean *******
ter Blackwell lol touchy are we ? Some of you guys reslly ate in denial. Maybe you have one of the few good ones. But the bulk are trifling. How is it sad exactly to state facts ? And grammar ?
Reply to
Jean *******
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Brian *****************
What a sad person you are. Go through life not trusting people will mean there will be no mourners when you leave this world.
Brian Monty Meitiner sounds like your bitter. Why would a girl much younger than you want to be around you ? You know how many times I have been out to clubs and drank for free courtesy to there many sponsors? Some girls have 1 Spencer who oats ALOT we are tlaking 300k a month. Some have 10 sponsors who give like 10 to 30k. Is 100% od girls here like this ? No but its damn close to 80%
Brian Monty Meitiner ah well thought you were one of those pervs who are 70 and running after a 20 year old. Lots of em in Thailand. That's more plausible. Fair game mate.
“Oriental” is a word used to describe a style of furniture, or a style of architecture - my wife is Asian (Thai). I also didn’t throw money at her to gain her favor, while we were dating.
Reply to
James *********
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Gunjan ********
F
David *********
No money no honey
Memo ****
She already exists without your money, didn't she? If she will leave you for not playing her, than she was never your girlfriend. Tell her you are out of money and look her reaction 😏
on one side I agree with you. It depends on what you really expect. If you dont expect a honest relationship, but can be happy with that, than its okay. Everyone has its own way to be happy.
Reply to
Memo ****
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Alain ***********
She's not really working at that bar, she's just the cashier, right? 😀
Luc ************
First time but you know Natalie. 🤔😄
Emile ********
This must be a joke 🤣🤣🤣
Оливер *********
No, she definitely is not using you mate!!! She really cares and loves you long time! Send her as much you can!
Wan ***********
Please think good about your gf
Marty ********
Very likely using you
Jon ********
Phillip ********
up to u mate, ur the only one that knows what going on in ur relationship with her..😉
Edgar ************
Technically it's rude to ask for money if she's never met you before, apart from if she was literally living on the street. Try telling her no, and see how she treats you after. If you notice a change in her behaviour (less interested etc) then move onto the next.
Paul *******
Kaching,kaching.
Nagendra *******
Hahaha depends on you how you thinking about her
Tammy ************
Don’t do it.
Sharon ******
The fact you are asking means you already know the answer deep down.. if a lady from your country asked you for money what would you think? It’s so common here, so if you can give freely and with open heart and not get upset when she is with other men doing the same then go ahead..
yes exactly no judgment as we all are currently living in a world of deceit, lack, survival but also greed created out of fear of lack.. keeping everything crossed that changes soon and all people have enough to live the lives we deserve and an honest life not based on fear
Many western women have asked me for money also. Educated , not working in anything sexually related. And far bigger amount and unlike girls here before/without any sexual intimacy
UK, USA, France, Holland, Germany, Sweden, ........etc. etc. Not as much as here l grant you. I think its obviously the poverty
spot on it’s not only Thai women who ask for money
Reply to
Richard ********
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Piers ********
40 years and the amount l must have sent. I know l was lied to and taken advantage of but not all the time. I dont really blame the ones who lied for doing so. Life is really hard for some of those girls and they are just doing what they need to survive.
Yes. Its so charming . Brings me joy just listening to group of kids at play
Reply to
Piers ********
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Francesco **********
so many bad messages!!! of course u MUST send her the money. 80% of the girls i had sex with here in bkk use to receive money from sponsors abroad… and it even happened quite often that they videocalled him/them just before or just after we had sex… so pls don’t be rude and keep sending her what she asks for, otherwise u will destroy MY market/playground!!!!
Jay ********
You must send $5000 every month if you want to keep her otherwise she will replace you by another sweet foreigner
I understand if there is some reason to do. But if he noticed something strange he should believe in red flag. People shouldn’t relied on love , they should be independent enough to take care of themselves before loving someone
oh okay I thought you were specifying that TRANSFER was bad in a way that just giving was not. I read all 200 something comments in a row and probably just confused myself.
If you need to ask this question then it's definitely a no.
Mike ******
Don't send money! If you think you will lose her if you don't, you are in luck, because they grow women here and there are more than you can imagine. So, find the one that doesn't ask you for money or if it's your desire the one that gives you something in return for your money, both are here in abundance.
Greg ********
Tell her to relax. You need money to sustain your own way of life, once/if you are living together in the future she can have all of you and your money 💰 if its true love ❤
Sunshine **********
Maybe, she thought 💭 you have no brain 🧠.???? I think you know answer from everyone,but you just would like to see bad response to did lady 😅😂.
Marco *******
She love you. Send the money and she will love you in future too. Or not…
Hans *************
it's depending where she living and what she doing.
during Covid time it's not easy to have a work. Even normally she could survive with her family. But when you love her much and you have the money you could send her monthly 6000 - 8000 thb.
the problem will be, when you reduce later or stop support she would not love you any more... 😢😢
i made same 20 years ago with the girl who is now my wonderful wife since 14 years.
if we really though Thai women were bad, we wouldn’t all be here. Just like everywhere, you have your hood and your bad.
Reply to
Karim ***************
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Anthony ********
If you met at a bar or club you are being used.
Dave *********
Many girls have 7 plus guys sending money and ask for more if mom sick, bother motorcycle needs repairs… they have a book in English that tells them how to get rich from farang… but do give something if you want something
...and please not to forget the water buffalo! If the water buffalo from the village where she's from is sick --> money will be required ! And the grandma is sick! The 20th time in the year, when it comes to the end of that year! The bigger the wallet, the bigger the love! 🤨😐
Reply to
Michael ******
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Peter *******
Bullshit post
Sukhumvite ******
Shameless. Classless. Jobless.
Michael *******
Carl ***********
She just using you. I think in your heart of heart’s you know this.
Kuan ******
With all due respect - always sceptical to request for money - u know the pudding when such requests are made . So if u want to develop a relationship where u will be supporting her for the rest of your life - then u can send her money ..
Only you can find the answer, because no one know her. I know a woman receiving money every month by a Finnish man, since more than four years, but she doesn't love him, moreover she had planned to have a house built by his money, and then send him away, but until now this guy hasn't been so idiot to do it. The vipers move sinuously, but they remain vipers.
Stefan *******
Don't listen to these fools, sent her all your money . All of it . And she will love you even more and forever and ever.
Jeremy ********
Just give her your debit card with PIN number but remember to tell her only to use it in emergencies…
Here's what we can do, send it to me and give me her contact information, I will hold it while I interview her concerning her sincerity toward you. If she fails the sincerity test(and I have a full proof test) I'll send the money back to you, swear to God.
Karl **********
Piers ********
Paul Weinhardt Oh l am just as foolish. Probably far more so
"I want a serious relationship with you "- " l am an unattractive underachiver nobody but one thing l do have ( thanks to my rich nation colonial history) is money. So l will send you peanuts and convince myself its " true love". Please forgive me, l wish we desperate western men were not so absurdly blind"
Reply to
Piers ********
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Marc ********
No money no honey….
Lili ********
They all want money 💰 but Good luck 🤣🤣🤣
Tony *******
Don't let your little head rule your big head .wait until you decide if your going to live hear with her or not .then and only then come over and give her a monthly allowance that you can afford .
Do you have the ability to send her money? More importantly.. do you have the desire and willingness to?
Resentment can build up fast.. she may have more money than you! Maybe not cash.. But land and gold.
Pelle **********
Send her money she loves you
Филипп **********
Doctor Phil to the rescue, i have read your story and he is my suggestion =your girlfriend is Not using u, she is actually deeply madly in love with u.. I proscribe following action= wise her this instant with as much cash as u possibly can🤑🤑🤑🤑
Karla *********
Denis *********
Send but no more than you usually spend for dinner. And see what happens )
Wanalee *************
Depending on how much, if it not much, and you love her, and you have more than enough.. Why not ? only you know her , noone else in here know her more than you.
Seems like you guys think every Thai woman want your money at all time but yet still want to fuck them for free and want Thai woman girl friends without investing anything. you want beautiful young Thai women, if you just as handsome that is fine, but if you are old and ugly, you think you should automatically get a young beautiful women without investing anything?? why would we want you . That just funny..
good point...then why this young and beautiful girl don't say it straight to her old and ugly farang that there's no love honey and she fucks for money
I would not know if she say or not saying, I wasn't her, and for me,
I just give an example on my point of view.
I never asked a man for money because I always dated that handsome men and I can make my own money, if the man is worth it, I believed any woman would give up or do anything to be with him...
Reply to
Wanalee *************
Reply
Parisa *******
Love and good relationship will not start with money. 😉
Rod *********************
Depends on so many reasons...
How long you been together
What do get in return
Do you love her
If you say no does she treat you like shit
Does she have a job
Does she have kids
What reason she need money
??????
Niclas ***********
Troll post 100%
Jaco ***************
Be afraid very afraid 😂😂
Ronald *****
Blacklist her number... Remember this! a girl won't forever be 18yrs old...but there will always have 18yrs old girls..😂
I just realized this the correct spelling 🙂 I thought it was spelt weary 😂
Reply to
Irene *******
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Kal *********
LOL ...
Andy ********
She isn’t using you, we are going out tonight and want you to pay
Aek *****************
Do not send money. You will never get your money back. This happens over and over again for decades.
Wan ***********
Love so you have to help her
Arnond **********
Theres other guys fцСk¡Иg her for free
Dimitris ************
The answer is simple: Don’t send money and don’t feel tempted to do so. If she lasts with you more than 2 months she may be genuine. Odds are she will not contact you ever again
Her family buffalo hacked the account and pretending to be her, he's also pretending to be sick. In fact, he's not buffalo at all but an immigration officer who got a tip about your illegal mahjong operation you're running from the back of your bamboo shack so you better change the appearance and run off to the Philippines when women are all honeys and men smoke pipes and they address each other Maaaam and Mister and where white man is like a God, especially if he knows anything about mahjong...Philippino girls will send YOU the money, just don't expect to find a place where you can exchange those to a normal currency, so you'll have to spend it all on fried bananas and sugary drinks.
Dave ********
Mr Moss is on a wind-up methinks 🤣🤣
Bä ****
Wait till tomorrow, once the alcohol wears out, you’ll have the answer (🤣)
John *********
Don't give her sweet @uck all
Philip **********
Depends how much and how often?
Been with my girl for 3 years and she has only ever asked me for money 2 times, each time for about £50-£60 so she can go spend time with her friends.
Dont send Money never. She asking every Day new Peoples and others for same same. You not the only One. No Money no Honey. A good Thai Lady never ask for Money.
John *******
Depends on where you met her. Did u meet her at 7 eleven outside of the bar life area, have an affair with her, meet her parents and stay at her place? Did u make a promise that you will back? If yes, send no more than 7000 baht per month. Remember your promises. Otherwise, she is using u.
I met bar girl a u met a girl selling t shirts in a shop both same attitude
The 1 selling in the shop found her "love" in Norway through some friends help
She has husband now a daughter a never going to probably work again...
She got what she wanted
Reply to
Maya *******
Reply
Thai ******
You have answers your own question, so there is the answer haha
David ******
Don’t be stupid! She’s using you like an ATM machine
Carrie **********
Awww…. Cuuuute!
James *********
How many girls do you "send money" to in your own country??? How many ask this of you?
Suthivej ************
Dont do it bro
Adrian ******
The one question not asked is why ?
There maybe a legitimate reason but if not it’s a slippery slope to being a cash cow
Nguyen *****************
Lol 😂
Martin ********
If you are paying then its a business arrangement not a relationship
Si ***********
You call her girlfriend she’ll be calling you her sponsor and she’ll have a few more in other countries.Sad but true move on to the next you’ll meet the right one when they don’t ask for money.
Shane ******
Its a gamble, dont spend what you cant afford to loose.
If you are way out of her league then chances are your being used...
Danny *************
If you have to ask on a FB group, then you're emotionally ill-equipped for this type of relationship.
Count yourself lucky, LISTEN FROM ALL OF US, DO NOT SEND MONEY, SHE'S PROBABLY GOT 3 BOYFRIEND'S, SENDING HER MONEY, WE UNDERSTAND YOUR PAIN, BUT DON'T DO IT,