What are the risks of renting a house in Thailand without a rental contract and without my landlord reporting my presence to immigration?

Nov 13, 2020
4 years ago
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Hello,

My landlord (I am renting house) doesn't want to declare my presence to immigration, nor make me a rental contract to don't pay tax. What do I risk? (i need it to do somes papers). Thanks for your help
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TLDR : Answer Summary
The user faces multiple risks by renting without a formal rental contract and without the landlord declaring their presence to immigration. Key concerns include potential fines from immigration for non-compliance with the TM30 registration requirement. The absence of a contract complicates the situation regarding the return of the deposit and legal rights as a tenant. Comments suggest that the user should consider moving to a different rental property to avoid penalties and complications with immigration.
Graeme **********
This is the heading of the form I use in Samui. Because I’m renting and in possession of the house, so I consider myself the possessor and I just include my details and not the landlords. Never had a problem yet. NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR THE POSSESSOR OF THE RESIDENCE

WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED
Terary **********
My lease is a piece of paper in English that approximately lays out the agreement, address, names monthly rate (fudged a little), photos of passport with signatures. No tax stamps. Seems to work here in the Pattaya immigration office.
Jane ***********
Why are you even considering being compliant with this? If you don't have a rental contract, you have no rights. If he doesn't fill in a TM30, he's breaking the law. Many many things require evidence of TM30. If my landlord was wanting to do this - or even mentioned it - I'd be moving asap. So much rental choice atm.
Kenken ********
My owner filed the TM30 online and then I attach it for the 90 days reporting
Steve ********
When I took my lease to imgration they said to me e why is there no tax stamps on the lease they called my land lady and told her she needed tax stamps on it but we never did put them on.

I think it depends on what officer on what day you get to how easy or hard they wish to make it for you. Think now at this house I'm on my 5lease same tm30 from the first one
Devon ******
He sounds shady. If there’s no rental contract, move to another home. My old landlord tried to do this, but the school I work for had a chat with him and he did the paperwork.
Duncanc **********
jail
Kuan ******
Practically you risks him denying n refusing to return your rental deposit to you at the end of tenancy.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
I'm afraid about it yes... But I think if he will do it, I will go to immigration or police and try to have help... But the situation is really not clear. I will move as soon as possible
Kuan ******
@Anaïs ********
yep.. find another place - if possible
Janin ******
He is obliged to do so by law. So you can report him to the police!
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
I think I will move, I have no paper with his name, no good contract (one paper but to light to do something with). Thanks
Steve **********
Probably because they aren't listed on the house book. You can't sign a valid contract with anyone but the person listed on the house book.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
OK so next time, I need a copy of the house book, thanks
Steve **********
@Anaïs ********
I learned this the hard way. My landlord's name is on the title deed of the property but his wife's name is on the house registration. In the past immigration has requested that I provide my rental contract *and* copies of IDs and house books for both "owners".
John *********
What is his name i was renting last November for 6 months he never registered me I had to pay and I got it back off him I will never rent off him again
James ********
It’s law he has to do
Pete *****
Do you have any confirmation on paper or in messages that you paid the deposit? You need a proof that you rented that house and that you paid the deposit if you havent signed any contract.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
I signed a paper, but it's not a contract, I have message yes. I don't think is it enough to get a proof 😒
Sagar *******
Good place to hide if you want to hide.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
No I don't need to hide, it is my problem, I want to be in law^^
Dawn **********
They will make you pay the fine if you want your TM30. Otherwise, your TM30 won’t be issued until your landlord pays.
Thomas ************
Unless you want to get pulled aside and fined next time you have to do anything visa related, move now
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Yes I need to extend my student visa in few months. Ok thanks I will move.
Thomas ************
@Anaïs ********
Sucks to have to move, but good call. No point risking it these days
Alwyne ********
Yes report him now and find new place
Chan ****
Are you sure that your landlord owns the house?
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
No, the situation is really not clear...
Chan ****
@Anaïs ********
, a copy of the title deed with the name of the property owner (last name on the list) should clear the issue.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Chan ***
Yes, i asked him to send it, i'm waiting his answer
Pete *****
I had a similar situation. I went to the immigration normally to do a 90 day report. They told me to pay the fine for the owner (1500baht), and they called him. They told me that he needs to cover the cost and if not, to come back and tell them he refused. The owner sent me back the money the next day. But I dont know what would happen if he didnt do so.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Thanks for your advice! Actuelly the owner is European. But he tell me he didn't declare us because he want zero tax, and not intend to do it. 😒

Yes I will insist last time, and move as soon as possible. Thanks for your time
Pete *****
Monti I dont know. I have always been given these copies. I have no idea what one can do in this case
Pete *****
@Monti *******
you are right. I missed the information about the contract. Then its a lot worse situation and I would tell the owner to immediately provide all the documets as Im going to report to the immigration where Im staying or to give me back the deposit and move out (both options are unlikely to happen) and after he refuses, I would go to the immigration to ask them what to do. All what Ive said now may finally resolve the problem but the chances are like
****
to resolve it on time.

So summing up: you need to find another place as quickly as possible.

To talk with the owner it would be the best to ask a Thai person to do the talking.
Steve *********
Plenty of landlords sign contracts but still don't pay tax. That's why so many of them prefer cash once a month. So your landlord is super paranoid, or maybe there is something more nefarious going on with the property.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Yes we paid in cash once a month. And he told me he didn't declare us, and not intend to do it because he doesn't want to paid tax 😒
Marlies *********
@Anaïs ********
if they find out - you are in trouble.
Steve *********
@Anaïs ********
I doubt that Immigration and the tax office share files. Oh well, good luck with your move. 😊
Ryan *************
How did they even become your landlord with out a contract? You moved in without one? It would be your landlord who is also penalised on any count too so just do it yourself, and given you have no contract the law is one month deposit, I don't leave without my deposit in cash thou otherwise no chance you'll get it back. I wouldn't leave on this count if you like the place but you should let immagration know to cover your own back and a contract really does not mean much, if anything it's kind of good atkeasg you aren't signed down to 12 months, well she may think you are? I wouldn't tell immagration your landlord doesn't want too you might land her in shit then it might back fire maybe say you aren't sure if they have or something
Ryan *************
On what basis are you leaving? usually you would sign for a set amount of time, the paper you signed was it for a duration of rental? its unlikely you will get your deposit back in that case, personally I would not give them the keys etc until you do get it back cash in hand
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Ryan ************
Yes i will do it, no duration on the paper
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
I signed a paper and give the caution in cash (no really a contract). I will move and hope he will give back my caution 😒
Marlies *********
@Anaïs ********
guess your caution is gone - you have no proof that you paid. Thai word against Farang. Who is the winner???
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Marlies ********
The owner isn't a thai. It's an european
Marlies *********
@Anaïs ********
then it’s even worse to ignore the law
Darren *******
@Marlies ********
owner is farang judging by comment from OP elsewhere...
Andrew *******
Your risk is your landlord has not and will not complete a TM30. Find another place.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Thank you
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Yes, I will do it
Kool *******
Move. The landlord has no license to rent rooms, and you will not get any documents you need. Go to immigration and tell them exactly what is going on.
Dave **********
@Kool ******
you do not need a license rent out a house you own in Thailand.
Nick *******
good to know when they squeeze me out of the country and make me rent somewhere while my condo gathers dust and mould. Not that there are many people to rent it 😂
Kool *******
David Broadfoot, a hotel license pursuant to the 2004 hotel act, and updated in 2008.
Garrett ***********
@Ko**
Here's the hotel act. Can you point us to where it says you need a license to rent out a room or condo? Thanks.

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Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
I will move yes. I don't have a really rental contract, so no proof I think
Garrett ***********
You don't need a license to rent rooms...
Kool *******
@Garrett **********
, actually you do.
Steve ***********
Find a new house
Paul ********
Move, there must be 1000's of empty houses and condos out there.
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
No Koh Samui but it's the same, yes your are right
Alwyne ********
There is in pattaya
David *******
Move.
Scott ********
Find somewhere else
Paul *********
Call immigration

They haven't got much to do lately
Anaïs *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
I don't have good proof
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