Can I invest in a coffee shop in Thailand while holding a DTV without working?

Oct 21, 2024
2 months ago
ok now i have DTV. I'm just wondering if i can build a business like coffee shop and partner with thai.

I will not work on it I'll just want to invest so i can have multiple source of income while working as freelancer/remote job.

I don't need to apply for non-b or any I just want to continue on DTV. any thoughts thanks
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TLDR : Answer Summary
The user is considering investing in a coffee shop in Thailand while on a Digital Nomad Visa (DTV). Users in the comments highlight that while it is possible to be an investor or shareholder without working in the business, any form of active involvement could violate the DTV's stipulations against employment. Key points include that the user can potentially hold shares in a Thai company, provided they do not engage in any work-related activities unless they switch to a visa allowing such actions and obtain a work permit. Most responses caution against the viability of a coffee shop due to high competition and risks of financial loss.
DTV VISA RESOURCES / SERVICES
Dom ********
It’s possible as an investor. But there are many coffee shops in tourist areas I have a friend who opened a coffee shop and struggled due to high competition. Whilst there are also many, I have heard visa / tourist businesses can be profitable with the right staff. Good luck 👍
Tim ********
That’s what Chiang Mai needs. Another coffee shop.
Paul *******
You CAN look for business opportunities or become a shareholder but should the day come when you need to do any sort of work inside the business, switch to a visa that will allow you to do that AND apply for a work permit.

It's not clear if DTV holders are permitted to apply for a 15 day temporary work permit for emergency work services as those on visa exempt are. Advice on this needs to be sought.
George ********
Would highly advice against investing in a coffee shop, it won't be any sort of passive income just a slow bleed. Currently operating a couple different businesses here.
마리오 ***
Don’t waste your money investing in a business here unless you can be onsite overseeing things on a regular basis. Even then it’s a crapshoot. Better to invest your money in mutual funds or real estate back home.
Mike **********
everyone intuits you'd be working there because 99% of the time you would be back home. It's hard enough to start a new business already. You know how to hang up drywall so you do that, oh you can go fix this thing, oh you're the owner so you'll set the schedule, etc. totally fine back home, and here you're arguably taking away from Thai labor for any task you do. So you basically can do none.
Paul *******
@Siggi ******
You're confused.

I was talking about a BUSINESS. You need a work permit to do anything inside a BUSINESS.

You can do whatever you want at home, including a rented home.
Siggi *******
@Paul ******
I not talking about rented home if you could read I wrote I built 2 restaurants, and if you would read all I also said you can do many things when you are a shareholder of a business or even not if your Thai Partner runs a business you can help her. You can do menus, shift plans, promotions aso. No you can't not serve official or cook in the kitchen, but you can shower how to make food or drinks
Paul *******
@Siggi ******
You can do a very limited number of things, that I'm aware of but it needs to be behind the scenes.
Paul *******
@Mike *********
It's about the fact that foreigners need a work permit to so any sort of work inside a business.
Siggi *******
@Paul ******
this is not true, I built 2 restaurants, electric, water, painting, roofs aso. And I made this in the center of the second biggest Thai city. All the lies what are spreading here. If you do it in your rented house or apartment you can do whatever you want. I pick up may be 30 times people from airport who coming over from Europe no problem at all, how long I not charge them for it.

You can't do this for other people or a company but for yourselves you can do whatever you want.

If you are a co-owner of a business of course you can do shift plans, training , interviews aso. All the people here never opened or run a business in Thailand but posting lies and rumors. Btw you don't need a dtv visa to work online you can work online without a visa or with any visa what exist.
Paul *******
@Siggi ******
You can't hire Europeans to do menial labor in Thailand either. You're risking their future in Thailand by doing so. It's ILLEGAL.

I know you don't need a work permit to work online for a foreign entity and can do so on any visa.

Not what I was talking about, but people like you can't read and thus invent their own words and get angry by something others didn't even say.
John **********
You can but normally you have to be a minority shareholder unless you're from the US. You can't do any work in the business at all without a work permit, not even unlock the door in the morning.
Paul *********
Have you got a Thai partner everything can go through ?

The irony of this visa is that it’s for remote workers etc and they ask to confirm your portfolio of clients but they say you can’t work !!! Have I missed something
James *********
@Paul ********
Si Señor!
Greg ********
@Paul ********
For the coffee shop - Well he would set up a Thai Ltd company that has to be 51% owned by Thais. A minority shareholder ie a foreigner can currently control the company by having voting rights set up appropriately. As he is controller he can appoint the Thai Managing Director (and remove them). He cannot work on the DTV for this Thai Legal Entitiy on the DTV and he cannot get a WP. As for the DTV you can work for remote clients ie legal entities (Companies) or individual outside of Thailand.
Paul *********
thanks
Kevin ********
It’s so sad that there are many people that don’t understand the basics of Thailand and how owning a business works.

If you do not know it is best to say nothing. There are MANY small business share holders here that do not work and are not required to have any type of work permit.

The only guaranteed thing is that you cannot work in ANY capacity.

You can own a home here and rent it out (condo or lease) and that money is not considered income (but could be taxable) as well, so many people just blindly writing what they THINK rather than what is true.

My advice is don’t open a coffee shop, most lose money. But if you do, I wish you luck.
Ma ****
Rob *********
If you are looking to open a coffee shop send me a PM., we are selling one in Hua Hin in a good location 😎
James *********
@Rob ********
Your Cafe looks very cool and chill, and your Pizza looks Awesome 💯😎👍
Rob *********
@James ********
thanks 🙏, we wanna relocate to Hat Yai (my wife's home), and that's why we are selling the business.
James *********
@Rob ********
I'd DEF be a custyif If I lived there. Best wishes Rob! 👍
Dan *********
Maybe you should try reading the basic visa information lol. It clearly says you CANNOT work in Thailand lol 😂🤦‍♂️
Ayoub *********
@Dan ********
working and setting a business is two different things clearly you too slow to understand this, he can set up a business and get thais to work there, there's no problem in that
Daniel *********
@Ayoub ********
setting up a business is the definition of work.. you're creating something to generate an income in Thailand. AKA WORK
James ********
@Dan ********
and receive income generated in Thailand.
Greg ********
@Dan ********
Investing is not working. Do you need a WP to buy shares in companies on the Thai Stock Exchange? Does a condo owner need a WP to rent out his condo if an agent is engaged to do everything :-)
Kevin ********
@Greg *******
not so sure I would see it this way, if you are talking about buying the occasional stock then yeah I would agree. But if you are actively trading then it’s work. And if you live here and make money from trading then you should be paying your taxes here.

Anything other than that is wrong. That’s just my opinion though.
Greg ********
@Kevin *******
What if you are trading outside of the Thai Stock Exchange or other Thai products or companies. How is that different to the other remote work?
Kevin ********
@Greg *******
do you understand how tax law works?

If you live here, that’s resident for more than 6 months, you are liable for declaring tax on ALL income.

But most countries will have a double taxation agreement with Thailand so you would technically only be liable for the difference.

The problem that will come is they can see how much money you bring into the country, and if you don’t file a return then you will probably have issues at some point. Might not be for a while but it could be a problem in the future.

No different to anywhere else. You would be good to take advice on this if trading anyway and not resident anywhere else. There could also be benefits to setting up as a business in 3rd country to minimise the tax liability.

What you shouldn’t do though is think because I make money elsewhere that it’s nothing to do with me living here. Because it most certainly is.

Oh and if you are talking about the DTV and how that will work when everyone works remotely, it will be exactly the same. People will get caught out if they don’t prepare and understand this.

Also consider if you are here on any type of visa that doesn’t allow work, remote work will be breaching immigration law which would possibly lead to deportation.

All I’m trying to say is, don’t bury your head because others do. People get caught, kicked out, and all sorts all the time here and you’ll never hear about it.

Currently over 1000 people a week being rejected entry just in the 2 airports in BKK. Because tourist visas and bounces have been abused.
Greg ********
@Kevin *******
Thanks for the dissertation - it really was not needed :-)Not "ALL" income is taxed - currently only income remitted to Thailand. One tax official mooted the proposal of tax on all income for Tax Residents but that would take a change of law. Anyway - not my problem. I am tax resident in Thailand and have been for years and my taxes are submitted each year in accordance with the rules. Stop trying to teach your granny how to suck eggs. Are you ax resident and submit a return each year in Thailand?
Kevin ********
@Greg *******
well then, you already know. But don’t be so sure about where you stand. As the laws are constantly moving so any money you bring here will definitely be taxable or at least reportable. But they are definitely looking to change that to all income regardless of bringing it here or not.

And there are many many people that will read this and be educated. So it’s not just about YOU.
Greg ********
@Kevin *******
You are not even tax resident in Thailand are you? You have never filed in a tax form outside the UK have you?
*****
You were responding to me and giving me tax advice lol
Kevin ********
@Greg *******
what makes you think that? I mean it’s a big assumption to think that. Just because I’m British I have never filed a tax return anywhere else?

Actually I have to file in the UK, Australia, Norway and next year in Thailand.

As for what I know, probably a lot more than you right now. About many things.

I mean the fact that you actually believe you are not responsible for getting the tax wrong if you are paying a specialist here is laughable. Haha
Greg ********
@Kevin *******
So you have no clue about Thailand except what you have read. I wager much of what you have read has been supposition from newly minted tax experts. You got most of your facts wrong and the rest was about what might happen. Then you try to teach your gran how to suck eggs once more. In any jurisdiction the taxpayer is responsible in the last resort and not the tax advisor. Do you have degrees in stating the bleeding obvious?
Kevin ********
@Greg *******
oh I bow to your mighty intellect and wisdom of thinking you know more than others. You must feel so good trying to put others down which by the way is all you have done. I commented on what the rules are about a specific situation. Which by the way IS right. But whatever.
Greg ********
@Kevin *******
You were the one that jumped in giving all sorts of advice pal. You also had factual mistakes and were making assumptions about the future. You were the one with the condescending manner. Just returning it in spades as you are not as knowledgeable about the Thai Tax System as you claimed. Pomposity deserves disdain in some cases. Bye
Greg ********
@Kevin *******
I can assure you I know exactly where I stand. Monies brought here have always been reportable even if not assessable (Pretty obvious you know sweet FA about this BTW) The same international tax consultants have been completing my returns for years. I will follow their advice rather than an amateur such as yourself. Thank you and bye PS: I bet you have been listening to these newly minted tax consultants that have sprung up since late 2023 - stop bedwetting. Have you ever submitted a tax return in Thailand out of interest?
Mike ********
You can be a shareholder. But if you are a director who needs to sign on behalf of the company (other than setting up) then you need a work permit. You could setup the company so that any director can authorise company documents and have your partner as a director also. But if you need to sign then Technically you need a work permit if you sign the documents within Thailand.

Also depending on the location be wary of doing anything that could be considered work. Motorcycle taxis in Pattaya go around photographing known foreign owners of small businesses just so the immigration police can come and fine you later.
Paul *******
@Mike *******
So motorcycle taxi drivers act as snitches because they hate foreigners or because they work in cahoots with immigration?
Mike ********
they get a finders fee
Andrew *******
@Paul ******
all the above. $ is $
Andrew *******
@Mike *******
crazy, but good to know. An angle I never contemplated, but the moto-taxis are very crafty individuals.
Paul *******
@Andrew ******
They probably get a cut. Also, Pattaya is the short of place this would happen. Not somewhere I'd set up a business for reasons like this alone.
Andrew *******
James *******
Yes not a problem to do this
Jim ***********
Don't have name anywhere tell nobody.
Oliver ********
you can be a shareholder, as long as you're not involved with managing/operating the business, but most coffee shops lose money, so I wouldn't recommend to rely on it as an extra source of income
Anonymous *************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Oliver *******
profit is just extra if it's just break even with employee I'm ok with it I'll just like to have a coffee shop that's designed by me. but thanks for helpful comment.
Tim ********
Anonymous participant you said for extra income.
Xandro ********
Yes you can, go for it!! if you get questioned, tell them some stranger online told you it was okay. Let us know how it works out for you.
Anonymous *************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Xandro *******
nah, Is asking online not a good idea?. so you can have pointers before going to an accountant or lawyer? So you don’t look clueless and just agree with everything? Yes, asking online isn't always great, especially when too many of you who only making a trash comment.
Xandro ********
Anonymous participant is a great idea! Yeah, I agree. Let us know when the cafe is open.
Greg ********
You can be an investor but cannot do any work for the business.
Anonymous *************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Greg *******
yes that what I'm planning as my profession really pay well, than working on coffee shop. I'll just don't know why many member have small minded if it's legal why not? you also help thailand economy by hiring and paying tax on your business.
Greg ********
Anonymous participant I know a few guys here have investments in a few small businesses. As long as not working then no need for a WP. Years ago during the building of the Skytrain one lad from back home working as an engineer invested in a bar. His staff hated him with good reason. He would actually go behind the bar, check the money and play his own records. Need a WP for that and his staff hated him so much they informed on him and he got arrested. We thought it was hilariousa.
JB *******
You can invest and be a director in the buisness without requiring a work permit.
@Lone *********
is your best person to talk further in depth about how to go about things and what the requirements are for the buisness 😊. Good luck in your ventures
Mike ********
@JB ******
you shouldn’t be a director. A foreign director of a Thai company requires a work permit officially to be able to sign documents on behalf of the company if you are in Thailand. You could claim the documents were signed while you were outside Thailand. The likelihood of someone pulling you up for this is slim however. Work permit related matters usually is only if you are on the premises pulling a pint or making a coffee for example.
Mike ********
Owning a company and signing as director as far as I know still requires a work permit. In reality the chances of getting ‘caught’ and prosecuted for signing business documents without a work permit is extremely slim. But people always ask about the official legal stance and that’s what it is.
Mike ********
If you have a business visa I think there is very limited scope for some work related activities like attending seminars. But that doesn’t include DTV.
Paul *******
@Mike *******
There are some newish rules exempting foreigners from the need for a work permit if just attending the occasional meeting or signing documents.

More precise requirements should be carefully double checked but I recall simply signing documents does not in general require a work permit. It may be different if the director is a foreign national based in Thailand.
Andrew *******
You can make a business and take no part in it, other than being an owner on paper and receiving dividends. Speak to an accountant
Kelly ********
That’s why it’s an (anonymous poster)
David ********
Why you want to mess up with the best visa in years?
Anonymous *************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@David *******
is asking a question and planning is messing it?.

"I'm just wondering" and if it's legal why not?
Adam *****
Did you miss out on the stipulation in the DTV that you can't be employed?

Setting up a business is considered employment.
Siggi *******
So many morons here who never run a business or worked in Thailand just spreading lies.

Dtv visa not allows you to work for companies outside Thailand. Because for this you don't need anything! It's only a multi entry 5 year tourist visa. Nobody can give you the permition for working for a company outside the country you are in.

If you want to be be a partner of any business in Thailand there is no permission at all. The question is how you want to secure your shares?

If your wife or girlfriend run a business then you can even help her without any problem.

And before all the morons come back again, I know it bc I do it since 10 years. 99% of the information here are just rumors and lies
Anonymous *************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Siggi ******
they all just want to feel they are smart even if they really don't know 😃. If I'm going to do it it will become a real business and partner no need for wife or GF, as i want all legal.
Siggi *******
@Adam ****
don't spread lies
Ayoub *********
@Adam ****
you're wrong mate... I can invest in a business just can't work in it I need to have thais working
Luit *****************
@Ayoub ********
but you cannot be the manager of the Thais working for you, you might need to hire a manager too.
Ayoub *********
@Luit ****************
that's fine.. Be a owner and let your business run for you why you want to be around so much??
Ayoub *********
@Luit ****************
when did I say you could be a manager
Luit *****************
@Ayoub ********
You did not say, but you talked about Thai workers, and the average Thai worker needs a manager to do the work.
Andy ************
@Adam ****
Setting up and even owning a percentage of a business is not employment provided the owner doesn't work and employs the requisite number of Thai people, pays them minimum wage and pays their social security. Sitting at the back of the coffee shop counting the profits is ok
Greg ********
@Andy ***********
As he does not want a WP he can employ 1 employee if he wants - there is no requisite number.
Dennis ************
@Adam ****
its not
Greg ********
@Adam ****
It is not if he is just an investor. For example you can invest on a Retirement Visa as long as you are not employed and do no work for the business.
Todd *********
@Adam ****
setting up a business is NOT considered employment in thailand
Andrew *******
@Adam ****
not as simply an owner