How can expats effectively manage tax exposure with new Thai tax rules starting in 2024?

@Ken *******

That's the simple answer to this question,If you miss transfering the 400:000 back at the 2 math requirements,it could jeopardize you visa renewal.

@Pat ****

If you use an ATM card in Thailand, the bank who operates the specific ATM will have details of your name and account number. This transaction can be reported to the Thailand Treasury, who can then request under CRS details of ALL your card transactions carried out in Thailand. If there are any "suspicious" patterns you may be asked to explain source of funds. Failure to do this may see your card blocked for use in Thailand

@Peter *********

ligt eraan of je in Nederland of Thailand belastingplichtig bent. Indien Nederland: je eerste huis is sowieso niet belast, en al was het je tweede, dan rekent de Belastingdienst met een fictief rendement. Je kunt je huis dus gewoon verkopen, de winst is niet belast. Thailand heeft daar niets mee te maken en zal ervan afblijven als je het overmaakt, want de transactie en belastingheffing erover zijn in Nederland reeds afgehandeld.

Indien Thailand: dan betaal je belasting over het daadwerkelijk inkomen uit vermogen indien je dit overmaakt naar Thailand. Dit was al zo, en dit blijft zo, met het enige verschil dat een jaar wachten met overmaken je niet langer vrijstelt van deze belasting. De waardestijging van je woning is overigens slechts voor een klein deel in het laatste jaar gerealiseerd. Alle waardestijging uit eerdere jaren is niet belast, niet in het verleden, want niet overgemaakt, en ook nu niet, want voor 1 januari 2024 gerealiseerd. Enkel waardestijging sinds 1 januari 2024 is belast (op het moment van overmaken naar Thailand, zij dat nu of in een toekomstig jaar).

@Peter *********

well I believe if it’s your only home you cannot be taxed on the proceeds of selling it if your country has a double tax agreement

@Chris *****

Chris Bdra if you know ignorance is not an excuse for not knowing the law, then why do you why do you state "it isn't a crime when you don't even understand the crime "........????

@Dirk *******

I will just edit it out as I’m lazy to explain the legalities of Thailand tax filings.

@Roberto ********

what a silly comment. 😅

@James **********

Just the truth. I don't know if any other country which allows money to be brought in tax-free if you wait a year! So your comment is actually stupid

@Roberto ********

that’s why this concept is so stupid.

@James **********

The only thing I've noticed is the stupidity of people making comments in these threads. One dummy the other day said savings from ten years ago will be taxed. The stupidity of people unable to understand basic taxation concepts amazes me!

@Roberto ********

there’s nothing normal about what the Thai folks have proposed.

@James **********

The new proposal merely brings Thailand into line with most other countries. They've closed a crazy loophole that's all.

@Roberto ********

except its better to fill one in, as technically anyone who has stayed over 180 days is subject to a tax audit, and with a tax return this is limited to a 5 year period, where as its 10 years without one. (Not a new rule). Not that i've seen anyone mention being audited. But you also need 3 consecutive returns if you ever want to go down the permanent residence route. But yes 99% of retirees will never have looked into their tax obligations.

@Bradley ********

thai tax system is of a voluntary nature, which might seem bonkers to many farang, me included. Buy to say nobody pays tax in unless they work for a large corporation is not so true. Anyone wanting a mortgage or other financial credit product will know rhey have to do a tax return to do so. And there is also another 'tax' paid by small businesses with a visible presence, in the form of protection racket payments to local law enforcement. Which is odd, as last week the police chief said that his staff are all heavily in debt. But if you know where your local police chief lives, go and take a look at his driveway on Friday and see the typical cars owned by his deputies. It doesn't look like they are in debt, but if so, these cars are the cause.

@Roberto ********

Double taxation agreements generally give you a 'tax credit' in the secondary tax regime.. meaning if your income is received and taxed under an overseas tax code.. such as your country of origin.. then any tax you have already paid on that income in said country (which you can evidence) will be offset against the tax that would ordinarily have been payable in your country of residence.. as far as expats living in Thailand is concerned.. it would mean that provided the notional tax assessment under the Thai tax code is less than the tax you have already paid in your home country.. then there would be no further tax to pay on that income.. however if for example your home country had a zero tax rate on income.. then the full amount of this income would be subject to taxation in Thailand.. but the caveat to this is that it is only deemed to be 'income' when you bring it into Thailand.. meaning if you transfer it into your Thai Bank account.. at which point it becomes visible to the Thai authorities.. and my understanding is that all overseas transfers could potentially be treated as income in the current tax year.. despite the fact you could be moving savings you've accumulated offshore.. and said savings comes from income which has been taxed in your home country (or elsewhere) in prior years.. so unless the Thai tax code gets modified before y/e 2024 tax returns have to be submitted.. or until it does.. then imo the safest option for expats married to Thai's.. would be to transfer monies from overseas directly into your spouses Thai Bank account.. which doesn't necessarily make it tax-free.. but it does mean that you don't have to report it as income.. and unless he/she is compelled to file a tax return and self-declare it then it would not come under the expat microscope.. or as has been mentioned elsewhere.. you simply leave the funds overseas and withdraw cash using ATM's as and when needed.. which is clearly a more costly practice (rates/fees) but for people with high income and/or coming from a country with a more lenient tax regime than Thailand.. it could be cheaper than paying the tax on it here.. i think the position will become clearer as the tax year unfolds and the reality of implementing it successfully begins to dawn on the Thai authorities.. so we may ultimately get some respite from it!

@Ally ***********

Very long-winded response, but a couple of things you're wrong about. Pensions are only taxable in the country in which they're received. End of story. Forget about tax credits. Not applicable to pensions. And whatever gives you the idea that ATM withdrawals will not be taxed?

@Roberto ********

From what I've seen.. the Thai tax code does not grant exemptions based upon the 'type' of income.. meaning whether it's earned or unearned income.. and ordinarily your home country cannot stipulate that 'pensions' cannot be taxed in an overseas territory.. ie. if you are deemed tax resident in that territory.. that is surely for Thailand to decide.. there may well be a special agreement with the USA regarding social Security payments but that does not necessarily mean it will apply in all other territories.. and as far as ATM withdrawals are concerned.. can you please explain to me how the Thai tax authorities will be able to monitor withdrawals from overseas bank accounts made through an ATM.. if your ATM card is linked to a Thai bank account that's different of course.. so i'm guessing they are relying upon people self-declaring such withdrawals.. and how many people are going to do that!

@Ally ***********

DTAs exist for most western countries, I only know for a fact Australian pension is only taxable in Australia, and likewise the US is the same. So that's pretty clear. If you use your ATM card to withdraw cash, you are aware that your details are stored on the database of the bank whose ATM you are using? So the Thai bank has your name and card number. The bank can report this to the Thai Tax Office who can then request details under CRS of your history of withdrawals in Thailand. If you have a solid history of these, expect to receive a "please show source of funds". The electronic world we live in today, everything is traceable

@Roberto ********

And with ten zillion atm transactions daily they will surely have the resource to handle such a reporting structure.. having worked in the banking industry for a good portion of my career i can tell you such a system is frought with problems.. and by the time somebody actually gets close to a working (meaning reliable) model.. income tax as we know it will have been abolished.. and will have been replaced by a single 'purchase tax' applicable to new items only.. which will be a flat rate of around 15% in most countries.. and tax returns will become a thing of the past.. so in that sense this discussion becomes irrelevant!

@Ally ***********

If you say so! 🤣

@Ken *******

If anyone asks just tell them it's pension. Easy enough.

@Roberto ********

Savings? That’s pretty broad term. Any links or further info?

@Roberto ********

My understanding is: If it wasn't taxed in your home country and you bring it in you will be taxed. Unless you raid your piggybank and bring in cash...

@Eric *********

I'm talking about pensions. I'm not sure what you're on about! 🤣🤣🤣

@Ken *******

If you're bringing in money from investments you will need to declare it, and offset tax payable in Thailand with tax already paid elsewhere. Income of this nature is different to pension payments. Even if you bring in cash, you might have to declare it, same as ATM withdrawals and Credit Card purchases

@Roberto ********

just to clarify, are you saying that US pensions are not taxable at all in Thailand? or are you saying that if filing tax return in Thailand; taxes already paid in the US on pension dollars will be credited on the Thailand tax return?

Second question

If you’re only income is pension, does a Thailand tax return need to be filed at all?

@Sean *********

This is the example given in the DTA

@Sean *********

that's certainly how the tax treaty reads but always best to take your own advice. As your pension is not assessable under the thai tax system I don't see why you would