What are the implications of the new Thai tax policy for retirees bringing money from their home country?

Jul 29, 2024
5 months ago
Angela ***********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Concern's about new taxes imposed on imcoming proceeds from my country THAT I HAVE ALREADY PAID TAX ON &

worked hard all my life to earn.

Hi to all, Angela here , i am a brand new group member. I am a semi retired middle aged Australian trades-woman. I am not wealthy but what little means i have i worked very very hard for. Indeed no man ever gave me a razoo cent nor did i ever ask.

Having been to Thailand 3 times over the last 15 yrs i have often considered retiring there.

Now i am not so sure 🤔. I have recently learned that the Thai Gov have audaciously proclaimed they will tax the income &/ or in my case incoming disbursements of my own hard earned money into a Thai bank account.

I have already paid tax on my own money 🤷‍♀️in Australia. There is no way i am going to abide supporting such a Yak hyde of a policy. Ned Kelly wore a helmet when he rorted ya but they intend to so so with a straight face 😮.

I would really value some honest opinions on the new tax policy for retiree's before i consider Thailand as a retirement destination, 🤔🤔 Kind regards Angela
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TLDR : Answer Summary
Angela, an Australian trades-woman considering retirement in Thailand, expresses concerns about a new tax policy proposed by the Thai government that aims to tax incoming remittances, questioning its fairness since she has already paid taxes on her income in Australia. The discussion reveals differing opinions on the tax implications for retirees, with some reassuring that the bilateral tax agreement between Australia and Thailand should prevent double taxation, while others caution about the potential complexities of tax residency and the need to file tax returns. The conversation underscores the importance of understanding the tax laws relevant to expats and the community's mixed reactions to the proposed changes.
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Peter **********
Any money you owned in the year prior to becoming a Thai tax resident remains untaxed now and in any subsequent year - under current law. You are, like many, worried about something which isn’t \ won’t be a problem at all.

Chill, relax, come to Thailand and enjoy a well deserved retirement. I wish you peace and happiness.

We have a special interest group on facebook for those who want to discuss immigrant related tax issues:

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Todd *********
@Peter *********
that's an incorrect interpretation. Any money you bring into the country as a tax resident is subject to taxation in Thailand. Consider also, your nations tax treaty with Thailand.
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Peter **********
@Todd ********
No it isn’t. None of the money which you owed in the year prior to becoming a tax resident is taxable income.

Read my comment again and once you understood what I wrote, repeat your fable about old income from ancient history being taxed.

Do you really think Thailand is going to tax you for money earned in 2020? Geez!!! 🙄
Todd *********
@Peter *********
yes, i do. The minute you bring it into thailand. It makes no difference when you earned it. And just to bring you up to speed, read where my link is from. That should offer you some clarity. If not, you will be for some fun surprises. The only ones exempt with be LTR holders
Peter **********
@Todd ********
There you are wrong. Income from prior years, aka savings from before you became tax resident, are never taxed. Not now, not tomorrow, not next year.

If you have 500 million baht in your foreign bank account on dec 31st, and you become tax resident in the next year, you can bring this money to Thailand tax free. No tax is charged on old income from years before you became tax resident. Nothing, zero, zip, zilch.
Todd *********
@Peter *********
best of luck with your amateur assessment of the tax situation.
Mike ******
You payed tax.

Really
Radost **************************
You will pay nothing like anybody else. I cant wait until it is 2025 and all the people who spread rumours finally shut up. Thailand has no information about any income and will never have. And how long you are not a resident no other country will give them ever give them any information. And if you really ever lived and work in Thailand then you know they even not have any evidence about Thai people, where 70% never paid any taxes in their life. I know foreigners and Thai doing business inside Thailand and never payed taxes last 10 years. Spreading fear and lies will catch you back next year and then everyone knows about you what person you are.
Brenton ******
What these tax experts fail to grasp is the tax laws haven't changed they were only amended. Foreigners who reside in Thailand over 180 days a year have always been required to to file tax returns, this is not a new thing.

Retirees have been living in Thailand for many years and bringing their pensions into Thailand and not filing tax returns. Do any of you tax experts know of retirees being chased by the Thai tax department for not filing a tax return? No me neither.
Alastair ********************
You will not pay tax if you are in Thailand for less than 180 days per tax/calendar year (unsure of which applies).

Savings, if that's what you will be living on is not income, a pension or rent from a property however is an income. If you have an income it is subject to income tax usually within the country in which it is sourced, in your case Australia.

Thailand has "double tax treaties" with 60 countries which includes Australia, therefore if tax has been paid in Australia you won't be taxed again on the same income.

To pay tax in Thailand an individual would need to be registered as a tax resident, how that's accomplished I'm unsure but a degree of permancy would be required for this to be progressed.

There are a couple of interesting articles which provide an overview of this matter and I'll include them below. I hope they help answer or assist you in some way.

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John **********
@Alastair *******************
that is simply not true. Any income you bring into Thailand is assessable for Thai tax if you are tax resident. The DTA will provide a credit for tax already paid on the income and certain types of income may be exempt. But as you have assessable income you need to complete a Thai tax return in which you claim the credit and any exemptions, but you can't have both on the same income
Eddie ******
Worked hard…….lol
Jan *******
Maam, it’s necessary to understand tax system. If you retire in Thailand, you will use the streets, the airports, you will be protected by the police and and and . you want to be a part of the community. and for all that you pay your part - as everyone else is doing. i can’t see anything bad in that.
Todd *********
You have lived in the overpriced and overtaxed hell and isolation of Australia. Audacious…. That’s Aus.

You will pay less tax here than your own overtaxed and underserved country
Lena *******
According to my husband, we are in the top percentile of highly taxed nations. People just look at income tax. That's high enough. We pay capital gains if we have one house and sell it before owning it for 2 years. Not an investment house. A home. Then there's GST which comes on top of massive import taxes 'cos we sold out and now have to import food. That is why we will be in Thailand in 5 weeks to retire. They're talking about inheritance tax AND a death tax. Not the country I grew up in. I lived in London for 23 years until 2015 and it was still cheaper, barring rent. Now rentals in Australian cities (at the arse end of the world) are on par with cities that offer far more. But there's no housing for people so it's a moot point.
Dave *********
@Todd ********
Wow tax is really low in Australia then?
Todd *********
@Dave ********
taxes exceedingly high in Aus
John **********
It's pretty simple. You pay tax on your income in your home country, if you are tax resident in Thailand and bring that income to Thailand you will be taxed in Thailand but get a credit for the tax you already paid in your home country. This may or may not result in you having to pay additional tax in Thailand. You also need to consider the type of income you bring into Thailand and whether the dual tax agreement between Australia and Thailand provides any exemptions for that income. Rather than getting het up about it look into it (or get an accountant to) and see whether you will be affected and by how much. It's likely not as much as you might think. One other point is that you are tax resident in Thailand and bring income into the country you will be required to fill a tax return which is where you claim credit for tax already paid and any exemptions provided by the tax agreement.
Jeff *******
'Audacious'? you mean just like your government do? The thais are merely catching up
Robert *****
Another thing is you have to live in Thailand more than 6 months.
Andy **********
Unless forced too, with visa requirements, or requests from your Thai bank to show proof of a tax return, and or residence, the truth is, most retirees in Thailand won't do anything, and just draw their pension and live their lives, if you don't register with the tax office, they don't even know you exist, I think most of the fuss is scare mongering, but what I said is just my opinion, time will tell.
John **********
@Andy *********
if you have a visa then they know
Andy **********
@John *********
of course they have knowledge if you're in the country on a full time visa, everything is there if they want to check, but do you think the Thai authorities check and assess every expats personal circumstances?? There would need to be a personal investigation, it's been discussed in these groups about how it could be made a visa requirement, or your thai bank could insist on wanting to know about your tax status, and or residency, apart from that, if an expat is living a simple life in Thailand drawing his pension out of an ATM, and just using that, how else is that person going to be of interest to the authorities regarding his tax status??
Ron ******
@Andy *********
If they tie it in with extension of stay I guess brown paper bags may be in demand🤣🤣🤣
Jeff *******
@Andy *********
Dangerous advice imo
Andy **********
@Jeff ******
it was a statement not advice, I stated it is my opinion, most pensioners will probably just draw their pension and stay under the radar, also for instance any expats that work for a company say online outside of Thailand, will probably do the same, if they are not on the correct visa anyway, do you really think all the pensioners and digital nomads are going to be running off to the tax office with tax returns?? I think they will just carry on as they always have done, Thai authorities can't investigate everyone.
Jeff *******
@Andy *********
So essentially your advice is to hope you don't come onto the radar, so we've gone full circle back to dangerous advice in my opinion. Especially when possible deportation for tax avoidance becomes a real thing
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
Looks like a troll post from a fake profile! Yeah, we'll believe you! 😂
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
Yep here we go, whenever someone on here gets out of their depth, they fall back to 'troll'! 😂
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
But correct
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
So they won't know you're in the country from your passport? visa? 90 day reporting? People all over the world try to hide from the taxman, rarely ends well
Andy **********
@Jeff ******
I have also just gone full circle, you repeat yourself saying I'm giving "dangerous advice" it's my opinion on what I think people will do, it's not advice, don't you think you're being a bit dramatic talking about deportation?? I read on another post it's a ฿2000 fine for failing to compete a tax return on time, i don't know how true that is, so please don't quote me on it, do you not realise that everything you mentioned, about checking passports, 90 day reports etc etc, all that would take a targeted investigation, they can't check everybody, it's impossible.
Jeff *******
@Andy *********
'if you dont report yourself to the taxman' sounds like advice to me but fair enough if that wasn't your intention. Of course deportation would be dramatic, but it's always an option, depending I imagine with level of offending, ie one off mistake or clear evasion, and of course as in any country once you're on that radar most authorities don't stop there. Not paying it on time, sure small fine. dodging the taxman for 12,13,14 years probably not a fine right? As for the scale of the operation, a recent Thailand migration report stated there were 150,707 expats in Thailand of which 72,969 were retirees, personally I don't think thats too far a stretch to take on district by district, with the added bonus of flushing out the illegals. Or of course they only have to tie it to visa extensions and wait for the 150,707 to come to them.
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
No need to hide from a DTA. That's what they're there for - to protect the taxpayer
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
What are you talking about, he advised hiding from the taxman, who mentioned hiding from a DTA?
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
The DTA governs what a foreigner pays in tax, so it is in effect "the tax man". There is no necessity to declare income which is not assessable
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
It's not for you to determine that. Any money coming in will have to be declared whether you think it attracts tax or not. It's going to be interesting times, with a lot of tears before bedtime
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
Nup. Never going to happen! 😂😂😂
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
Cool, but I would be sleeping with one eye open. 🙏
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
Nope. Everything is good. Can sleep peacefully! But please do feel free to do whatever you want if you're so frightened! 😂
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
I'm not frightened, I know whats happening and can afford to cough up if it pans out as mooted, whereas those who hope it's just going to go away.....
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
It's not a case of going away, for most retirees, it's a case it never arrived. I give you 100% guarantee I'll be paying no income tax in Thailand, and I'll be sleeping well every night! 😂
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
If you're here on a budget or poncing off the mrs you might be right. Still lets catch up next year or when you go to get your extension, making falangs pay tax is going to be a walk in the park if they tie it to extensions ...Sleep well
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
I'll be on DTV in November, which means no visits to immigration for over five years. Sleeping so easily! 😂
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
Well played - any reason you didn't go for the superior LTV? Not being a smartarse, just asking
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
I think you mean the LTR? Work it out. LTR 50,000 with insurance. DTV 10,000 no insurance. No brainer 🤣🤣🤣
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
Yep thats the one. So the DTV where you can only stay for 6 months? What are the tax benefits of the DTV? Golddust now. I could continue to rattle them off but I think this guy does it better
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Andy ************
@Jeff ******
I'm in and out of the country like a yo-yo. I haven't filed a 90-day report since covid such as are my movements. A free stamp every time I enter for 180 days for the next five years suits me down to the ground. Any money I bring into Thailand is tax exempt, so the tax-free component of the overpriced LTR is worthless to me. The DTV is the best thing ever happen in Thailand. It's a beauty!
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
Fair enough - for a resident though the LTR is the better. Having said that they've made a pigs ear of where the money required needs to be. It's possible to scrape through on 80k a year if it's on a tax return but fail if you have a billion in cash !
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
I am a resident. I also happen to be a world traveller. I'm laughing
Paul *******
Can’t believe I read all the post. Do some homework please
Henning **********
I think it's simple. If you don't want it, don't go to Thailand. If you don't like customer service at a restaurant, you don't go there. If you don't like a product, you don't buy it. If you don't like the rules of a country, you don't go there.
Angela ***********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Henning *********
Like other members kindly advised earlier. Indeed it is early days yet & south east Asia is comprised of other option's than just Thailand. I suppose in the event the tax system in Thailand evolve to not suiting my needs at a later date i will simply move on
Ron ******
Angela Mcalister Just spend less than 180 days a year in Thailand and the rest in other countries. You've stated you won't be buying a property so this would be a good workaround to avoid the possibility of you having to part with your hard-earned moolah.
Michael *******
If you pay tax on your income in Australia, you will get a credit ( under the DTA) against tax due for remittances you make to Thailand to live on - earnings/savings prior to 2024 will also not be taxed here , ie if you remit funds for your retirement visa or to buy a property.
Angela ***********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Michael ******
Thank you kindly for that clear advice Michael.

I won't be buying a property though as i would not be donating such a significant investment to a Thai national
Andy **********
Angela Mcalister you can buy a condo in your own name, if that is of any interest to you in the future.
Jeff *******
Angela Mcalister Put the bottle down Ang, you're making no sense again. It's becoming a habit! So your plan is to rent and donate to a landlord correct? hmmmm
Andy ************
Savings are not taxed
Jeff *******
@Andy ***********
Why will they not be taxed if you bring them into Thailand? Unless of course you've paid tax already? But as a resident of Thailand you shouldn't be paying tax in your own country, UK anyway
Andy ************
@Jeff ******
I'm not from the UK. Any money accumulated before Jan 1st 2024 is tax exempt. Chances are tax has already been paid on savings
Oliver **********
Maybe get the facts first before slagging everything off?
Jeff *******
'nil tax country tax residency via heritage' - wtf is one of them?
Oliver **********
@Jeff ******
she means she can move to Ireland and not pay taxes. They have pots of gold at the ends of rainbows there
Jeff *******
@Oliver *********
ah yes, I think she got that idea from the bottom of her third bottle!
Angela ***********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Oliver *********
I respect yr point Oliver , & point taken.

Had you been through the extent taxation injustice what i have, Indeed you would likewise be as cynical about the whole idea as I am.

Well at least i do have a back up plan re a nil tax country tax residency via heritage if all goes pear shaped & or cashless.
Will ************
You will pay the difference in tax between what you have paid in Aus and the amount due on the same amount in Thailand
Angela ***********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Will ***********
Thank you for that input Will. Should it transpire that the Thai system attempt's to impose further tax. Such as on What net etc i already have official Aus tax settlement clearance on. I will either leave or to a significant extent cease supporting banks & or stock holdings all together.
Jeff *******
Angela Mcalister lol - 'donating to thailand' 'supporting banks' etc etc - quite a high opinion of yourself Ang. I think they'll survive.
Casey ******
1) no one really knows yet. 2) yes, you will actually do what the country you plan to retire in says or you will retire somewhere else.
Angela ***********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Casey *****
Thank's kindly to all whom have offered advice from Thailand on this matter.

I am very likely to at least give Thailand retirement living a try. Should it later transpire that the tax system evolves to taking liberties however . Namely regarding any returns i have already hard earned the right to prior to retirement.

Then in that case i will simply move on & not oblige supporting that.
Damo ***********
Australia has a bi-lateral tax agreement with Thailand which means you will not get taxed twice.

Also a bit early to worry as nothing concrete has been written (but happy to be proven wrong)
Rob *********
@Damo **********
not what tax treaties do, skippy.
Brenton ******
@Rob ********
it actually does mean you won't get taxed twice
Damo ***********
@Brenton *****
dont you just love people like
@Rob ********
throw out big statements saying its wrong but doesnt supply any alternative ‘correct’ answer.. 🤣 My experience says dont waste time on THICK people 🤣🤣
Rob *********
@Damo **********
really a shame neither you or Brenton know how to google “Thai x country dual taxation agreement “ and read it. No, they do not say “you don’t get taxed in both countries “ what they do, is give a credit for taxes paid in one country when you file in the other country. Now, for the likes of you, who don’t have the intellectual firepower to make much money in your lifetime, the difference isn’t likely to be much. But for a as you put it THICC guy like me, actually Dr thicc professor of mathematical economics, with an income of half a million US dollars a year in retirement, the details matter. How Thailand views tax deferred in the USA investments, capital gains, business depreciation allowances etc, and the fact that they don’t count money as income until it is brought into the kingdom, maybe, or maybe that will change, etc. those details do matter. You blokes on poverty level pensions in your home countries can carry on not reading or understanding the treaty.
Bart **************
@Rob ********
you misunderstood the working of a tax treaty. Only occasionally there'll be given credit for taxes already paid elsewhere. In the vast majority of scenarios, a double tax treaty means exactly what the guy you oppose just said: that you won't be taxed twice over the same income.

Love how unknowing people make big statements about these people are supposedly "correct" people who did their research.
Rob *********
@Bart *************
I’m sure you know more than my accountants in Spain, the USA and Thailand do. No doubt your income to consider is over half a million us a year and your investments are worth over ten million, do you’ll have studied it more thoroughly than me. Should I connect you with them do you can explain it? I’m only a PhD in mathematical economics from Berkeley, who own the business, so clearly your success is much greater.
Bart **************
@Rob ********
I strongly doubt your accountants would make the same claims. Probably not.
Rob *********
@Bart *************
you misapply your situation, making little money in or out of Thailand, and think that is the sum total of dual taxation treaties. If I worked in Thailand, and didn’t return to the USA for that year, yes it would only be taxed in Thailand. That however does not apply to other income brought into Thailand. So how about don’t apply your “backpacker tax knowledge “ to those who actually know much more than you do? Thailand taxes worldwide income based on when you bring it in to the kingdom. There is talk of changing it to taxing your entire worldwide income, though that is not law yet. So the “dual taxation means no tax” is absolutely wrong.
Bart **************
@Rob ********
I'm going to repeat what Brenton, Damo, and myself have all told you already multiple times. Not to be a nuisance but because we understand how tax treaties work and you still don't.

Double tax treaties, for the most part, DO prevent double taxation. There are exceptions where it works the way you describe (in most of Thailand's treaties you'll find that arrangement for income from savings), but with any type of regular income such as from employment, these treaties determine where tax is owed and where it is not. Then if you earned income, for instance from employment in Australia while living in Australia, you do NOT owe any tax in Thailand.

So, it's not that the paid is deducted from the second country's taxation. The INCOME is deducted from the second country's taxable INCOME. To avoid being taxed twice over the same income.

Consult your accountants if you still don't believe us all because they know this too. If not, get new ones.
Rob *********
@Bart *************
the original poster is retired, as am I. So your constant harping on “who taxes the income “ simply doesn’t apply. I haven’t had a salary for ten years I have made millions from investments, and business. Your claim is simply untrue, except for people like you, making your small salary in Thailand.
Damo ***********
@Rob ********
see you 🤡
Rob *********
@Damo **********
too many big words for you.
Damo ***********
@Rob ********
Not at all. You are starting to embarrass yourself.

My comment re: not getting taxed twice was directed at Angela only. NOT in general. Having paid the top tax rate in Australia (you can inform us Einstein) it is higher than the top bracket in Thailand (again, tell us Einstein). THE COMMENT WAS DIRECTED AND BASED OFF ANGELA'a personal circumstance, because it was Angela who was asking..

1. you should stop pretending to be smart and poking your nose in where it does not belong...

2. You are definately not smart.

3. Not on pension.. not qualify for pension.. and will not seek to get a pension.

4. Make sure you know all the facts before you shoot your mouth off and look like a total &^&%.

5. I will help you with Australia's top tax bracket = 45% (without MediCare)

6. Thailand's top tax bracket =- 35%

7. Can you do the maths? Or you need a little more help.

8. You have 100% EMBARRASSED YOURSELF.

9. Do you still need some friends to talk too on Facebook? You seem a bit lonely.
Rob *********
@Damo **********
once again, your statement was in fact incorrect “ you will not get taxed twice”. You will be taxed twice, you get a credit for taxes paid in one country when you file in the second. There is a whole lot more to it than simply comparing the top tax tier. You started the insults here, and have continued, which is weak, bully. Go back to your barstool, you are neither a tax or investment expert.
Tim *******
@Rob ********
to be fair Rob is correct Damo relying on taxed twice on same money as his argument which is kinda true but not really the purpose or application of any tax treaties.
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