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What are the tax implications for expats in Thailand considering a retirement visa or long-term visa?
Tax ObligationsThailand Retirement VisaLong-Term Visa (LTR)Worldwide IncomeForeign IncomeThai Bank AccountRemittance based Taxation800k Bank Deposit for VisaDual Taxation Agreement (DTA)Expat Taxation in Thailand
May 19, 2024
2 years ago
Sonja *******
ORIGINAL POSTERHi all,
Is there any clarity on the tax situation yet?
We want to go for the retirement visa (or LTV), but do you have to pay tax in Thailand over your worldwide income, your money in your bank account (Wise in my case) or whatever you put in your Thai bankaccount?
Do you also pay tax over the 800k that you have in your Thai bank account for securing the visa? If so, once or every year?
Is there any clarity on the tax situation yet?
We want to go for the retirement visa (or LTV), but do you have to pay tax in Thailand over your worldwide income, your money in your bank account (Wise in my case) or whatever you put in your Thai bankaccount?
Do you also pay tax over the 800k that you have in your Thai bank account for securing the visa? If so, once or every year?
TLDR : Answer Summary
The discussion revolves around the tax obligations of expats in Thailand, particularly regarding retirement and long-term visas (LTR). Participants elaborate that expats are typically taxed only on income remitted to Thailand after January 1, 2024, meaning those who do not transfer income into Thailand from abroad should not incur taxes on savings held outside the country. The requirement of keeping 800,000 THB in a Thai bank account for visa purposes does not incur a tax on its own if the money is considered a savings asset rather than new income. Discussions also reference the importance of Dual Taxation Agreements (DTAs) and suggest consulting a tax attorney for personalized advice.
LONG TERM RESIDENT (LTR) VISA RESOURCES / SERVICES
- Take the basic LTR Qualification Test to see if you're eligible for the Long Term Resident (LTR) Visa.
- For immediate assistance, contact Thai Visa Centre directly via LINE at @ThaiVisaCentre or Email them.
- Explore recent discussions by using the Long Term Resident (LTR) Visa tag in the search box at the top of the page.
- Join the Thai Visa Advice Facebook Group to ask your questions, and get advice from others.
Pelle Erikssonā
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Luca G.ā
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Brian ********
Even tax experts are unsure, so don't plan to get reliable info from us amateurs on Facebook. It's still a wait and see.
Ross ********
Find out next year
Sharron *******
I want to know about the 800K we have to deposit in Thai bank also.. Thank you following
Alan ******
@Sharron ******
That is a statutory immigration requirement.Sharron *******
@Alan *****
I know. I just want to know if I will be taxes on it? When I transfer it over I will transfer at least $50,000. US at once. Some extra to live on at first.Colin *******
@Sharron ******
that depends on where the 50k came from. If from any form of income then it would be subject to the DTA. If it was from money earned prior to ***
/24 then be prepared to show the asset, or cash balance, to Thai revenue. You should be in the clear.Sharron *******
It would be from selling my home here in Florida, and come from my bank savings account
Jim ********
@Sharron ******
When did you sell your home and did you pay CGT on it?Sharron *******
Long term CG. have been in my home over 15 years. If I sell it for $250,000. no tax. But I take a loss on what I can get for my home. But only by $25,000.
Sharron *******
@Jim *******
It is for sale now. So no it was not before ***
/24Jim ********
@Sharron ******
Is it subject to CGT?Reply to
Jim ********
Reply
Brenton ******
The only thing that changed is when you bring money into Thailand, nothing else. Pensioners have been bringing their pensions into Thailand in the same year as they earned it forever and the tax department hasn't chased them.
Ian *****
LTV no tax liability outside Thailand or bring in outside cash. It's on the BoI website
Brown ********
If you pay tax on your income in your home country you won't have to pay tax in Thailand
Colin *******
Maybe you should retract your statement as it really is wrong as it is stated. You do not know the situation that anyone is in, so in all honesty can't make that statement. Why make these sorts of statements that others then believe cos they read it on FB. God help them
Colin *******
@Brown *******
so many folks just do not understand the DTAs. Please go and read the appropriate DTA for the country where your income is sourced. Most DTAs allow a credit for tax paid in the home country, but that does not exclude the income from Thai tax!!! If the Thai tax on the income is less than already paid then no Thai tax to pay. But if Thai tax is more then you will pay the difference. And that is the basis for DTA agreements all over the world, in general.Brown ********
@Colin ******
I'm an Aussie so nowhere is the taxable income moreColin *******
@Brown *******
not so my friend. As an age pensioner you can earn about $25k before paying any tax. Ask Thai revenue if you can have income of 600,000 baht and pay no tax. I don't think so.Jim ********
@Colin ******
Except pensions paid in another country are not taxable in ThailandTony ********
@Jim *******
not strictly true, it depends on the dta for that country, they can be different for private and state pensions, and different for state and government pensions. For instance the UK only ring fences government pensions, state and private if remitted are assessable, but can be offset against tax already paid.Jim ********
@Tony *******
I'm talking about Australia.Tony ********
@Jim *******
sorry, my misunderstanding, but you should have said 'pensions paid in Australia' then not 'pensions paid in another country' ....Jim ********
@Tony *******
I apologise for the confusion. If you read the entire thread you will see that I was responding to Brown Graham's post. As he is Australian I was staying on that topic. I agree DTAs will vary from to country, and I know that both Germany and NZ have almost identical to the Australian DTA. I also understand that the UK DTA is a little more complicated. I haven't even looked at it, as it holds no interest at all for me.Colin *******
@Jim *******
oh, does that apply to Australian superannuation payments?Jim ********
@Colin ******
Yep. Any pension or annuity is taxable only in Australia if the recipient retains Australian tax residencyColin *******
@Jim *******
the problem is this Jim. Thai BOI will not accept Aussie Super payments as being a pension because a) you could take the lot out tomorrow and casino it all, and B) amounts taken from an accumulation account, to top up the pension account are variable and thus not considered pension. If you have had experience of convincing Thai revenue that these withdraws are considered pension then I'd really like to discuss furtherJim ********
@Colin ******
Why do I have to convince Thai Revenue of anything? I've never had to do it in all the years I've been here, why would I need to now? I can get a letter from my Superannuation Fund which stipulates my monthly payment if suddenly (out of the blue) they ask for it! šColin *******
@Jim *******
Jim you don't have to do anything! I was just stating my situation and asking if anyone else had had an issue with Super payments. What occurred in previous years may or may not prevail after 2025. You are aware, or course, of the Revenue notice of late 2023 that sort of changed the game a little for some folks? Thus what occurred, even last year is of no relevance to the new guidance from Revenue. What and how and if they decide to play hard ball or not is a big question currently and no doubt will become clearer over the next year or so. But anyway thanks for the response.Jim ********
@Colin ******
No worries. The change in the Thai tax law only affects remittances which were earned in a previous tax year. That's why there's no change to pension payments, as these have always been remitted into Thailand in the same year as they were paid. So in theory they've always been "taxable" but because of the myriad of DTAs, expats on "retirement" visas have never been asked to show any documents due to complexity of pension payments and pension funds. It's never been worthwhile the Thai tax office trying to recover anything. They'd be stepping over dollars to pick up dimes, as they say. Nothing will change for pensions, because nothing has changed in the lawBrown ********
@Colin ******
yepColin *******
@Brown *******
so let's get this straight. You spendore than 180 days per year in Thailand, so technically you are tax resident in Thailand (assuming your not UN or Diplomat). You're not a pension so that means you have other means of support. Let's assume you're not a toy boy and being kept by a 3rd party, then you have an income source from overseas and you pay tax on said income in an overseas jurisdiction. We good so far? And now we have a situation where your Australian tax is higher than the Thai tax assessment, thus no additional tax to pay. Still good? Great, so in your particular case the DTA means you don't pay any tax in Thailand. Okay, so do you accept that other folks in a different income level will have a tax liability in Thailand?Brown ********
@Colin ******
yes on all frontsColin *******
@Brown *******
great, so your initial assertion that if you pay tax in Australia you won't pay any tax in Thailand applies to you and folks in your situation, but not everyone. Okay I get it now, you were just talking about yourself. Got it. CheersBrown ********
@Colin ******
I'm not a pensioner pal lmfaoColin *******
@Brown *******
so do you spend more than 180 days per year in Thailand,?Reply to
Colin *******
Reply
Michael *******
One thing marginally worse than bar room lawyers are bar room accountants - if in doubt seek professional advice - the tax issue is very real - understand itā¦ā¦..
Gregor **********
What is "income"?
Does "income" include any savings and cash deposits you have held before and which had been taxed already in your home country?
If I hold half a million US Dollars in assets from selling real estate in 2022. Is this classified as "income"?
The answer is "no" and I doubt I owe the Thai tax revenue anything if I bring these monies over to use them for my living expenses
You can bring in any overseas income you received prior to
The new measures only apply to income both received and remitted to Thailand after that date.
Income covers lots of things other than salaries, interest, dividends, pension, capital gains and so on.
So, from that date forward interest on your assets would be assessable for tax but the principal would not be.
The case was that any income earned in a different year would not have taxes due if it was remitted to Thailand in the following year or later. For retirees that basically meant their income wouldn't be taxed because it was retirement income from earnings long ago.
As of 2023 the policy has changed to tax income regardless of when it was earned once it is remitted to Thailand.
But as long as you already paid taxes on the income and your country has a dual taxation treaty with Thailand, you don't be double taxed.
This only applies if you are a tax resident of Thailand (180 days in the country)
How this will actually work in policy is unknown as 2024 is the first year this goes into effect meaning it won't come up until the beginning of 2025 during tax season.
Does "income" include any savings and cash deposits you have held before and which had been taxed already in your home country?
If I hold half a million US Dollars in assets from selling real estate in 2022. Is this classified as "income"?
The answer is "no" and I doubt I owe the Thai tax revenue anything if I bring these monies over to use them for my living expenses
You can bring in any overseas income you received prior to
*****
/2023 without any tax liability, these basically become savings from a Thai tax perspective. However I assume that you will be asked by the Thai Tax Revenue to prove it The new measures only apply to income both received and remitted to Thailand after that date.
Income covers lots of things other than salaries, interest, dividends, pension, capital gains and so on.
So, from that date forward interest on your assets would be assessable for tax but the principal would not be.
The case was that any income earned in a different year would not have taxes due if it was remitted to Thailand in the following year or later. For retirees that basically meant their income wouldn't be taxed because it was retirement income from earnings long ago.
As of 2023 the policy has changed to tax income regardless of when it was earned once it is remitted to Thailand.
But as long as you already paid taxes on the income and your country has a dual taxation treaty with Thailand, you don't be double taxed.
This only applies if you are a tax resident of Thailand (180 days in the country)
How this will actually work in policy is unknown as 2024 is the first year this goes into effect meaning it won't come up until the beginning of 2025 during tax season.
Brenton ******
Any money earned before 2024 is tax-free when you bring it into Thailand. This means you don't need to file a tax return to declare it as earnings because it's not. The only time you would have to prove when you earned this money is if the tax department audits you and asks for proof. You should declare any earnings from that money earned after
*****
/2024.Colin *******
@Gregor *********
your problem comes when you present the bank statements as evidence and Thai revenue ask about the interest you have been earning in 2024, and how do you prove that that is not the money you transferred? Darned silly suggestion but Thai authorities can be very pedantic at times. Suggest a second bank account, transfer the interest automatically and then you can prove that the income has not been transferred into Thailand. Much fun š¤£Gregor **********
@Colin ******
the good thing is, I didn't earn much interest, it will be less than the tax free 150.000.- THB per calendar year.Reply to
Gregor **********
Reply
Tony ********
@Gregor *********
its going to work exactly how it worked for the last 20-30 years. You work out if you have remitted more than 120k baht that can be treated as assessable, if you did you are suppossed to file a tax return, you need to request tax declarations from your and home country (where the money came from) to prove taxes were paid and/or it was earnt prior to *****
/2023 (used to be tax year). And refering to your countries DTA enter the relevant remittence. If you've already paid tax its unlikely this will result in any tax owed as the progresive tax rates in Thailand usually equate to less than tax already paid after you have used tax paid as credit and the various allowances you can claim. The change last year is basically a change to the box on the tax form.Gregor **********
@Tony *******
I thought the first 150.000.- THB are tax free, not 120.000.- THB like you wrote. And agreed to the rest. If I prove the monies have been earned before 31.12.2023, I guess they are all classed as savings and not as income, and remain tax freeTony ********
@Gregor *********
yes, and the tax free allowance can vary depending on age, but the requirement to file a tax return for foreigner and Thai is 120k assesable income if tax resident or 220k if your married not based on the allowance figure.Gregor **********
. . and then, from a certain age on. there will be another tax exempt sum added to the 150.000.- THB which are tax exempt any way. Plus deductible are children and elderly care. However you would need a tax lawyer to do the declaration for you, as up to now, no English text exists!
Gregor **********
@Tony *******
I saved the following listing to my computer:Receive income inside or outside Thailand via:
Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code;
Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40.
Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.
Thai citizens and foreigners who are permanent residents will be subject to income tax, if they earn annual income at the following rates:
0 to 150,000 baht (US$4,177) is exempt from income tax;
More than 150,000 baht (US$4,177) and up to 300,000 baht (US$8,354) are subject to a 5 percent tax rate;
More than 300,000 baht (US$8,354) and up to 500,000 baht (US$13,923) are subject to a 10 percent tax rate;
More than 500,000 baht (US$13,923) and up to 750,000 (US$20,884) are subject to a 15 percent tax rate;
More than 750,000 (US$20,884) and up to 1 million baht (US$27,846) are subject to a 20 percent tax rate;
More than 1 million baht (US$27,846) and up to 2 million baht (US$55,683) are subject to a 25 percent tax rate;
Over 2 million baht (US$55,683) and up to 5,000,000 baht (US$139,201) are subject to a 30 percent tax rate;
and
More than or more is subject to a 35 percent tax rate.
Reply to
Gregor **********
Reply
John ********
Why donāt you pay to talk to a Tax Attorney?
Just answer that question, please
Just answer that question, please
KO ********
@John *******
you live in Nevada, why do you care champ?John ********
@KO *******
Where I live is none of your business, mate.But more importantly why is advising someone to talk to a Tax Attorney, any of your business?
KO ********
@John *******
Where you live is everyoneās business if you make it accessible on your profileā¦.John ********
@KO *******
You made a big deal about it, why do you care Phuket Island?Reply to
John ********
Reply
Dave **********
@John *******
since the Board of Investment, who handles my LTR Visa, continues to put IN writing will be no tax on holders if a LTR I have no need of tax adviceJohn ********
@Dave *********
Could have included that info in your post.John ********
@Dave *********
ābut do you have to pay tax in Thailand over your worldwide income, your money in your bank accountā Is this your question? Ask a Tax Attorney?
Dave **********
@John *******
per the the BOI my income is not taxable Thailand so I will not waste MY MONEY in a Tax Attorney! Hope that is clear enough for you. If not read Brandon Thurkettle post Dave Spurling It's not just the BOI. The Royal Gazette entry that made the LTR a thing clearly states this.
Please, peddle your useless advice on the LTR elsewhere, thank you
John ********
@Dave *********
Brandon is a smart guy, no doubt about it.But why do you get so defensive when you come to FB, ask a question and reply is talk to a Tax Attorney.
Your first objective should be relax.
Dave **********
@John *******
because your giving inaccurate advice!John ********
@Dave *********
See a Tax Attorney is not accurate or you should relax. Which is it?
Brandon said āthe Royal Gazette entry clearly states thisā why did you come to FB, post a question, my reply talk to Tax Attorney and Iām not accurate. If you qualify for the LTR you probably have the money for an Attorney. Is that inaccurate?
Dave **********
@John *******
you made my day. lol one of the reasons I have money is I do not pay Lfor legal advise I don't need.
One more time. AN LTR Visa holder is not being taxed THE END!
John ********
@Dave *********
If $100 breaks you, you donāt have much.Reply to
John ********
Reply
Brandon ************
@Dave *********
It's not just the BOI. The Royal Gazette entry that made the LTR a thing clearly states this.Reply to
Brandon ************
Reply
John **********
You will only pay tax on overseas income you remit to Thailand, only income not savings collected before
*****
/2024. The LTR wealthy pensioner visa excuses you from tax on overseas incomeJohn ******
@John *********
the last sentence is not correct! The ltr visa wealthy pensioner does not give a statement about tax. Just one of the four visa and that is NOT the wealthy pensioners income promises max 17 % tax over a well described kind of income.John **********
@John *****
the 17% is for income earned inside Thailand. Overseas income is exemptJohn ******
@John *********
yes you are right. I was refering to thatReply to
John ******
Reply
Bob *********
No matter which long term visa your on, you will always be treated as a tourist, and as such why would they want to tax you? It would only cause you to flee to another country and stop spending all your retirement money in Thailand
Tony ********
@Bob ********
its not new, just what can excluded, and when you flee to another country they will probably have the 180 day rule as well.Reply to
Tony ********
Reply
Pete *******
Thailand operates a remittance based tax system. Only assessable income is potentially taxable.
Marty *********
The taxable income is money transferred into Thailand. Iām not aware of any clarity regarding the tax obligations of individual expats. It is definitely a thing for businesses earning money overseas and bringing that money back into Thailand.
Rick *********
@Marty ********
I am amazed the government has not made a clear breakdown of how it will go? Maybe they want to spring the bad news at the end of the tax year. I hope not but I definitely have a plan B.Michael *******
Please donāt put ideas in their heads š
Tony ********
@Rick ********
the government already did back in November last year. Its now upto individuals to educate themselves on how it impacts them. That can only be done by reading the government tax guidlines and your counties dta, or paying an expert to do it for you. Dont expect anymore communication from the government on the change. Being a tax resident after 180 days has been in place for at least 30 years looking at the dta dates of uk and usa.Rick *********
@Tony *******
it seems it has not been enforced?Tony ********
@Rick ********
agree in the majority of cases, and its doubtful that will change much. But it doen't mean that you don't already owe back taxes from preceeding years on money you remited historically. Its like a lot of things here, its not a priorority for them, and this recent change wasn't aimed at making it one.Rick *********
@Tony *******
ya if retirees were targeted they would make it mandatory to show a tax filing when extending? God forbid ha ha!Reply to
Rick *********
Reply
Marty *********
@Rick ********
Iām thinking we wonāt know until tax time, January 2025. With my LTR visa though Iām pretty confident I wonāt be affected.Erik *******
@Marty ********
You are obviously not been living in Thailand enough ā¦ šReply to
Erik *******
Reply
Marty *********
Do you mean LTR? The Thailand Board of Investment is telling LTR holders over and over again that they are not subject to tax on any income brought into Thailand. That was a feature of the LTR vise before the new tax rule was proposed. Never say never though . . .
Reply to
Marty *********
Reply
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