Are taxes lower in Thailand if I renounce my US citizenship?

@Vincent **************

Much appreciated!!!

@Frank *********

not if you have another citizenship you can fall back on. It's a smart move if thought out properly.

@Burnard ***********

I included Canada as that's where I grew up. Sadly the place changed into a complete shit hole and there isn't enough of money on this planet to make me move back. Tons of people I know have left just like me and many more are in process of doing so. Tbh I think Canada might be even worse than the US now lol

@Jarek ***********

Funny, Canadians are notorious for having certain mannerisms. You don't sound Canadian to me.

I love my country but I don't want to live there right now because of all the hostility. But I still love the USA and I always will.

So, you have a Canadian Passport, then? I wouldn't give up my USA passport for anything.

If you have a Canadian Passport, you don't have to live there but having the freedom come and go with ease has got to be valuable for you. You can even come back and forth to the USA, UK, or EU whenever you want.

Your Citizenship is much more than living there.

I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to speak so badly about your home country.

@Glyn *********

I’m just pointing out that the is not as simple as just 35%. If you bring in enough money then of course you may be taxed the maximum.

I’m not sure how this tax rule will affect the average low income expat but there are plenty of them in Thailand.

@Marty ********

agreed, it the worst case scenario...

@Marty ********

Tax 0 - 150 tax free, 150 - 300 = 5%, 300 - 500 = 10% 500 - 750 =15% 750 - 1 mil = 20%.

I'm pretty sure it won't impact pensioners.

I read funds brought in to purchase property is tax exempt.

@Danny *****

actually you can renounce your citizenship and still keep your ss retirement

@Marty ********

I pay no tax on my Social Security

@Bob *********

If your US Social Security income is less than $25,000/year there is no tax. After that you would pay tax on 85% of SS. Exactly how much depends on your particular tax return. If you are talking about Social Security or the equivalent outside the United States then I don’t know.

@Marty ********

I pay no tax

@Bob *********

Up to you. That has been US law since 1983.

@Marty ********

well my SS is more than $25,000

most likely because you have a lot of deductions. But the US government does charge tax on social security and income over $25,000 per year. I wrote a check for $4,000 this year and my tax rate came out to 10%. No, I didn't like writing the check but that's the rules. You take money out of your retirement account and it's over $25,000. You're going to pay tax on it. It's not going to change so you might as well just get used to it.

@Marty ********

print more money like they do for bombs perhaps. As an American, I’m so sick of it all.

@Chris ***

stupid Americans

@Robert ******

Pom American?

@Shane ****

i guess so. That is what most people complain about. Then they go why can't we have Canada Medicare. Shake your head you have to start somewhere. Sorry it takes time to appreciate the advantages

@Robert ******

yeah nobody who has a pulse says that. They know canadas system is a shit show.

@Albert ******

I agree that this is unique to US citizens and seems absurd in your situation but look at the flip side. You have calculated, after all these years, that there is value to keeping US citizenship for you and your children.

@Marty ********

that’s still doesn’t warrant taxation WITHOUT representation! Heck that’s why the revolution with England started ! 🤣. My kids have to pay taxes to a government that does not represent them in anything as they are European Union citizens, so they are being held accountable just because their father is a citizen . It’s unjust . And they SHOULD be able to visit the USA comfortably to see their family as I, WITH A PASSPORT! Right ?

@Albert ******

So you are keeping citizenship and paying taxes so you can easily visit the US? That’s your choice and may be expensive. However I don’t know what alternative passports are available to you. We know Thai citizenship is pretty hard to get.

@Marty ********

I’m more concerned about my kids who are developing entrepreneurs. In the future they’ll have to make that decision for themselves . As for me, I’ll just pay the taxes as my future isn’t as BRIGHT as theirs ! 🤣🤣🤣

@Albert ******

That sounds like a good plan. America is still, in my opinion, the best place for an education, particularly higher education, and the best place to build a business and career and to make and save money. Access to that is the value you have place on citizenship and that’s what you are taxes are paying for even if it is a different policy than other countries.

@Albert ******

Where were your kids born? If they were born outside the US then I know they can get a US passport but I didn’t think it was required.

@Marty ********

Poland, they just have citizen because of me and me being a veteran

@Albert ******

then you probably haven't seen the advantages but you have only seen the bad.

Look at our world and tell me how to fix it.

@Albert ******

not true. You’ve always had to report all income to the IRS. FATCA is online and takes about 5 minutes. The intent is to catch big fish. For the rest of us it’s not a big deal.

@Marty ********

you can hide your money in crypto easily

@Marty ********

yup and if you have a business or job that makes over 100k you need to pay taxes on it . That’s the real deal with FATCA

@Albert ******

I think the first $120,000 of foreign income is excluded

@Marty ********

yeah it’s changing year by year but the concept is the same .

@Marty ********

not quite true. You only need to report if your balance was $10,000 or more at any given time. Keep your balance below that and you're fine.

@Brian *******

That’s what I said but your grammar and sentence structure is clearer.

@Steve ******

thought you were asking a legit question.

When in fact you want to write a book on how much ( you think ) you know.

Why waste people's time?

@Steve *********

I’ve attached the guidelines from the IRS site

@Steve ******

Your not looking to assist.

Your marketing yourself.

@Steve *********

not marketing, just adding what I thought. The original thought was wrong but the IRS post is clear - at least as clear as anything from the IRS can be. Seems you’re offended for some reason.

@Steve ******

Where did you get the information, estimated life time earnings ????

That’s not true so please recheck your information.

@Steve ******

All the information on this that I find is similar to this

How much does it cost to renounce US citizenship in 2023?

To renounce your citizenship, you must have been tax compliant for five years and subsequently pay any outstanding tax bills that you may owe.

Additionally, you must prove by the following June 15th that you’re compliant for the five years before renunciation. So, on the date of the appointment, you may be behind, but you have until the following June 15th to meet the threshold to be deemed in compliance. If you’d like to simulate the renunciation process, connect with a US expat tax expert.

Those hoping to renounce their US citizenship must also pay a non-refundable renunciation fee of $2,350 for administrative processing.2

Certain expats, classified as “covered expatriates,” are also subject to an additional expatriation tax, or exit tax. Generally, a covered expatriate is somebody who either:

Has had an average income tax of more than $178,000 over the past five years before their renunciation date,4 OR

Owns more than $2 million in worldwide assets, OR

Fails to certify that they have been compliant with their tax returns over the past five years.

Most often, covered expatriates subject to the exit tax are taxed on the fair market value of their assets at a long-term capital gains rate of 23.8% (excluding the first $767,000).5 The exit tax, in other words, is imposed as if you’d sold all of your worldwide assets on the last day that you held US citizenship. There are exceptions to this rule, but it can be difficult to predict which assets will classify as such, and how they will be taxed.

@Marty ********

it’s expensive.

There is a tax paid on all your assets.

@Steve ******

I didn’t say it wasn’t expensive but I was curious about the claim that they would calculate your future taxes for the rest of your life.

@Marty ********

that could be wrong but either way - it’s not cheap and you’ll need citizenship elsewhere. With the 90k exclusion in place most retired expats don’t have to pay any tax as long as they don’t exceed the exclusion. After that it starts at top rate (thanks Bush)

@Steve ******

I checked earlier and the exclusion was $120,000 in 2023. Getting another passport is the first step and unless you have a familial relationship with another country it could require expensive investments in that country to get a passport. Getting a Thai passport has its own difficulties.

@Marty ********

yes. They adjust the exclusion each year. About the only passport you can get without a lot of expense is an Irish passport based on parent/grandparent Irish connections (unless they’ve tightened it). So at 120k, it’s not to bad as a retiree. And the FATCA thing is a minor nuisance. I basically cut and paste it each year.

@Steve ******

that’s not calculable.

@Shane ****

doesn’t matter. It’s expensive.

@Steve ******

maybe but what’s expensive to some is reasonable to others.

@Cris *****

The cost is a little over $2k. If you’re worth over 2M, you’ll pay exit tax on assets which is basically your capital gains rate.

Does this sound absurd to you?

@Brandon ***********

nothing besides what we have to pay the US tax even living outside the states

@Brandon ***********

And on top of that you still have to pay taxes for several years after renouncing.

@Jo ********

This isn’t actually true though. Once you renounce, you don’t pay. The only exception is income sourced from the U.S. is always taxable in the U.S. regardless if you’re a citizen.

But once you’ve proven your taxes are current, pay the exit tax if applicable, then you’re free.

@Brandon ***********

that’s reasonable