Answered2 years ago
Why was my DTV visa application denied in Vientiane despite having all required documentation?
DTV *DENIED* in Vientiane
TLDR: make sure the 500K THB is on your *personal checking* account.
Long version:
I was applying for the DTV as a digital nomad aka for the "workcation" reason, as I have a SMLLC in the US which I use for occasional consulting back home. My paperwork was all completely legit, and I was extremely careful to have everything printed out in advance, several copies, plenty of everything, nice presentation. Ran through a whole toner cartridge on it. I was keeping the funds in my business account precisely in order to underline how legit the whole thing was: it's a real company, I am the 100% sole owner, I have complete control of the money, etc.
Got to Vientiane -- if at all possible you should do the e-Visa in advance, on-arrival was 1700 THB and about 45 minutes of waiting in line. Prepared to go to the embassy in the morning. NOTE: the Consular Section is not the same buiding as the regular Embassy! Check the address on the visa website and make sure your cabbie goes to the right one.
Per advice on this forum I got there an hour early and they let me queue up. I was dressed respectfully, super polite. I had a photocopy of the Lao Visa on Arrival -- which takes up a full page in your passport -- but they also required a copy of the arrival stamp, which to my surprise was taking up another 1/4 page. (Random complaint but that means it's 1.5 pages in your passport to enter/exit Lao, in case you are running low.)
Wait in line, chat with a friendly fellow Falang next to me, and after about 20 minutes it was my turn. The lady behind the window was a bit curt but whatever, officials. She started going through the papers, handed back a few she didn't need, asked me if I'm the company owner, and after going through the company and bank docs she tells me:
"You need the money in your personal checking account, company account not OK."
I explained that I own the company 100% and for that and other reasons, I have full access to the money, it is in fact *my* money, as the company is *my* company. You could almost hear the gears grinding slowly in her head. She asked if I could transfer the money to my personal account? Sure, could do, but it's USA, that would take about four days, and I'm pretty sure if I come back again they will say "need six months." And anyway, the next appointment is in a month.
Her supervisor walked by and shook her head and that was that.
From that moment she went from curt to dismissive. In a moment fit for TikTok she pointed to the requirements (I'd brought a printout) and jabbed her finger at the spot that says "Financial evidence: amount of no less than 500,000 THB, e.g. bank statements, payslips, sponsorship letter" and said "personal checking account only!"
Then she waved me out with the rudest little table-dusting gesture I've ever seen. Off you go, little animal, better luck next time.
OK, fine, I'll season the money in a personal account and do it again in six months or so, but online and for a Thai basket-weaving class. Message received.
My takeaways, in case anybody might find them useful:
- Personal checking account only!
- Getting there early is worth it. Note the two embassy locations!
- Photocopying is easy across the street, 10 THB per.
- They're not trying to facilitate anything, just going down a checklist.
- Which is different at each Embassy of course, and not published anywhere.
- Your Serious Business is not "better" than online basket-weaving for this purpose.
- Don't overprepare, but do simplify: explaining is useless.
- Dressing up was unnecessary, shorts are fine.
On Vientiane:
- Visa On Arrival is a shit-show.
- Taxis are infrequent and overpriced; Tuktuks more common and you can bargain.
- THB is preferred in many establishments.
- BeerLao is pretty cheap, wine and hard alcohol expensive like Bangkok.
- Food prices and quality vary wildly (compared to BKK) but not bad.
- Overall it's a pleasant, sleepy little city. GF is reminded of a smaller Ubon.
- ATMs are reasonable ($2 fee) but have a low limit (~ $90 or 2,000,000 kip).
- Coffee places mostly close early but a few are open later and they have Amazon and Starbucks.
- Lots of Vietnamese working here, I didn't expect that.
- AIS roaming data package works great; hotel and restaurant WiFi not so much.
PS, the Fellow Falang had been working illegally selling condos in-country on Visa Exempt for almost a year and had a fixer set up the appointment and had strict instructions on which window to use, so I guess that's a thing already. I'm sure he'll be flying home with his DTV on Monday. Nice guy, I wish him well.
TLDR: make sure the 500K THB is on your *personal checking* account.
Long version:
I was applying for the DTV as a digital nomad aka for the "workcation" reason, as I have a SMLLC in the US which I use for occasional consulting back home. My paperwork was all completely legit, and I was extremely careful to have everything printed out in advance, several copies, plenty of everything, nice presentation. Ran through a whole toner cartridge on it. I was keeping the funds in my business account precisely in order to underline how legit the whole thing was: it's a real company, I am the 100% sole owner, I have complete control of the money, etc.
Got to Vientiane -- if at all possible you should do the e-Visa in advance, on-arrival was 1700 THB and about 45 minutes of waiting in line. Prepared to go to the embassy in the morning. NOTE: the Consular Section is not the same buiding as the regular Embassy! Check the address on the visa website and make sure your cabbie goes to the right one.
Per advice on this forum I got there an hour early and they let me queue up. I was dressed respectfully, super polite. I had a photocopy of the Lao Visa on Arrival -- which takes up a full page in your passport -- but they also required a copy of the arrival stamp, which to my surprise was taking up another 1/4 page. (Random complaint but that means it's 1.5 pages in your passport to enter/exit Lao, in case you are running low.)
Wait in line, chat with a friendly fellow Falang next to me, and after about 20 minutes it was my turn. The lady behind the window was a bit curt but whatever, officials. She started going through the papers, handed back a few she didn't need, asked me if I'm the company owner, and after going through the company and bank docs she tells me:
"You need the money in your personal checking account, company account not OK."
I explained that I own the company 100% and for that and other reasons, I have full access to the money, it is in fact *my* money, as the company is *my* company. You could almost hear the gears grinding slowly in her head. She asked if I could transfer the money to my personal account? Sure, could do, but it's USA, that would take about four days, and I'm pretty sure if I come back again they will say "need six months." And anyway, the next appointment is in a month.
Her supervisor walked by and shook her head and that was that.
From that moment she went from curt to dismissive. In a moment fit for TikTok she pointed to the requirements (I'd brought a printout) and jabbed her finger at the spot that says "Financial evidence: amount of no less than 500,000 THB, e.g. bank statements, payslips, sponsorship letter" and said "personal checking account only!"
Then she waved me out with the rudest little table-dusting gesture I've ever seen. Off you go, little animal, better luck next time.
OK, fine, I'll season the money in a personal account and do it again in six months or so, but online and for a Thai basket-weaving class. Message received.
My takeaways, in case anybody might find them useful:
- Personal checking account only!
- Getting there early is worth it. Note the two embassy locations!
- Photocopying is easy across the street, 10 THB per.
- They're not trying to facilitate anything, just going down a checklist.
- Which is different at each Embassy of course, and not published anywhere.
- Your Serious Business is not "better" than online basket-weaving for this purpose.
- Don't overprepare, but do simplify: explaining is useless.
- Dressing up was unnecessary, shorts are fine.
On Vientiane:
- Visa On Arrival is a shit-show.
- Taxis are infrequent and overpriced; Tuktuks more common and you can bargain.
- THB is preferred in many establishments.
- BeerLao is pretty cheap, wine and hard alcohol expensive like Bangkok.
- Food prices and quality vary wildly (compared to BKK) but not bad.
- Overall it's a pleasant, sleepy little city. GF is reminded of a smaller Ubon.
- ATMs are reasonable ($2 fee) but have a low limit (~ $90 or 2,000,000 kip).
- Coffee places mostly close early but a few are open later and they have Amazon and Starbucks.
- Lots of Vietnamese working here, I didn't expect that.
- AIS roaming data package works great; hotel and restaurant WiFi not so much.
PS, the Fellow Falang had been working illegally selling condos in-country on Visa Exempt for almost a year and had a fixer set up the appointment and had strict instructions on which window to use, so I guess that's a thing already. I'm sure he'll be flying home with his DTV on Monday. Nice guy, I wish him well.
Answer summary
The author shares their experience applying for a Digital Nomad Visa (DTV) in Vientiane, Laos, highlighting the requirement that funds must be in a personal checking account, not a business account. They encountered bureaucratic challenges at the embassy despite meticulous preparation, including missing documents that were not made clear in advance. The author advises on various aspects of the visa process, such as arriving early, the efficiency of the e-Visa, and practical tips regarding transportation in Vientiane. They emphasize that each embassy may have different interpretations of the requirements, suggesting that applicants should prepare additional documentation and consider embassy differences.
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Divya **********
Thanks for explaining things in details. I’m applying for DTV soon under workcation. I have one question, if you can help me clear this doubt. My US employer sent me scanned copy in PDF format, of my contract and employment certificate on company letter head. I’ll have to print it out, but it’s not the original copy (not easy for me to ask the employer to ship me original copies). Would they accept print out of the scanned PDF?
Secondly, I read somewhere that the company letters needs to have company stamp/seal (called certified copy or something). My employment contract and employment certificate sent by my employer doesn’t have any stamps as such. Only director’s signature. When I asked about it, I was told that stamping seal wasn’t a thing in US and most companies don’t even have any such stamps/seals. Will this be a problem for me?
Secondly, I read somewhere that the company letters needs to have company stamp/seal (called certified copy or something). My employment contract and employment certificate sent by my employer doesn’t have any stamps as such. Only director’s signature. When I asked about it, I was told that stamping seal wasn’t a thing in US and most companies don’t even have any such stamps/seals. Will this be a problem for me?
Kevin *******
OP@Divya *********
my case was different — my own company and I had stamps just for kicks. But I think others have said it’s not a problem, you just need lots of signatures. Obviously nothing from the USA is going to have stamps or seals, they are meaningless. You should start your own thread here and maybe someone with experience will reply.Samuel ********
After reading your detailed experience, if that was me I’d personally just apply for a visa for another country.
Kevin *******
OP@Samuel *******
dude, no way! Thailand offers many visa options and they all contain a little uncertainty, but having dealt with immigration in two different European countries, I'm still a fan. I thought I had the DTV sussed out and I was wrong and I ranted a little but if you follow this forum you'll see lots of success stories. I ended up with some hassle and some expense but in the end I'll still have a pretty good deal, compared to most countries.
George *********
@Kevin ******
Wow. Sounds so complicated. Stupid question. Why not just leave to another country. It seems too much of a hassles and too much moneySamuel ********
@George ********
Good story in being persistent.But it pays to always have backup options. Like mate, I’ve heard of people being denied to then reapply and pay the application fee another time!
Samuel ********
@Kevin ******
I’ve been living in Thailand for the past two years, but honestly, it hasn’t been all that impressive. My partner and I just secured visas to move to Australia, and the entire process was far more efficient and transparent compared to anything I’ve experienced in Thailand. I guess it comes down to different priorities, but in my view, Australia outshines Thailand in every way.Kevin *******
OP@Samuel *******
that's fine for you, and I have nothing against Australia. But this thread is about getting a specific visa for Thailand. There are a whole lot of Australians in Thailand -- possibly the largest Farang expat group? -- and I'm sure they have their reasons, but it's not for me to say.I have never dealt with Australian immigration so I can't comment on it. I know the systems in Thailand, in the US, and in a few different EU countries. Of these, I find Thailand the friendliest.
Good luck with your new life in Oz, many people say good things about it!
Glenn **********
That’s so strange because they accepted my single member LLC account. I applied online through Chicago embassy
Kevin *******
OPGood to know, thanks for adding this info! Chicago would be a consulate, same as Los Angeles. So I assume it gets processed in DC, or is that not the case?
Did they ask for tax returns?
Did they ask for tax returns?
Brandon ************
@Kevin ******
No it would not be processed in DC. It would be processed in Chicago, same as an application through the Los Angeles Consulate would be processed in Los Angeles. And each one has their own rules as well.
Elías ********
@Glenn *********
not that strange as every embassy has freedom -to some extent- as to what to accept and what not. Conversely, some embassies fixes their own minimum income requirements on their local currency, which can be slightly over or below 500,000 bahth.
Pablo ********
Why do you assume they will require 6 months for the money to be sitting in your personal account? Can’t you just transfer the money and try again? Did the specifically say it must be in there for 6 months minimum?
Personally I’d like to know if just showing the funds in the account is sufficient without it being seasoned 6 months.
Personally I’d like to know if just showing the funds in the account is sufficient without it being seasoned 6 months.
Kevin *******
OP@Pablo *******
fair questions. I have read in forums (sadly, the best source of info right now) that Vientiane wants to see six months. Based on the vibe of the interaction I strongly suspect that if I'd been able to transfer the money to my private account *in that moment* and then run across the street to photocopy my mobile phone screen -- saw a guy run to do just that -- then it would have worked. But that was not an option for me.And based on the same, I strongly suspect that if I'd come back in five days she would have just jabbed her finger at the same line-item which doesn't say anything about personal account nor six months, and said "six months."
Some embassies are asking for three months, from what I've read, and others for six. IIRC somebody got accepted with zero months but I wouldn't take the chance. At least in Vientiane they sent me packing without first taking my money.
Shaun ***************
😆 by any chance did you get that “fixers” number?
Kevin *******
OP@Shaun **************
no, the other guy finished before I did, we were going to swap numbers but it was all pretty fast-moving. Probably not hard to get if you know expats in Phuket.Ahmed *******
You could simply pay 1k baht to 1 of the fixers outside the embassy and get another appointment within the next few days
Kevin *******
OP@Ahmed ******
interesting! I didn't know that was an option, I can't remember anyone mentioning it here. Those fixers should be a little more proactive: when an obviously pissed off Falang leaves the compound, a "sir do you need help with appointment" would work wonders. But anyway for reasons I noted, the timing and the risk of another rejection would still be unfavorable.Ahmed *******
@Kevin ******
yeah it seems like you could get rejected again if you didnt present the bank statement from a personal account , and their requirement is that the money doesnt go below 500k for 3 months at leastAhmed *******
@Kevin ******
yes wiseKevin *******
OP@Ahmed ******
but this was all on your personal account, maybe on Wise, right?Ahmed *******
In my case when i got it , it was on the time that i had to switch from using usd to have all my clients pay me in euro so my euro bank statement was less than 3 months and matching their requirements and attached my 6 months usd bank statement which was having a 0 dollar ending balance but shows that i sustained that amount of money 3-6 months ago and before that and it was fine they approved me
Ahmed *******
@Kevin ******
6 months bank statement but the money shouldnt go lower than 500k in the last 3 monthsKevin *******
OP@Ahmed ******
it's six months in Vientiane.
Werner ************
They are probably seeing many fraudulent applications etc
Kevin *******
OP@Werner ***********
perhaps, but (Heisenberg principle at work here?) how is a personal bank account less likely to be fake than a company one? At least with the company you can confirm it's in good standing if you want.Werner ************
@Kevin ******
Thai bureaucrats follow direction line by line there is no grey area for them…if it asked for a personal bank account that’s what’s wanted, there will be numerous more examples as you get more accustomed to dealing with Thai bureaucracy…read the directions follow them line by lineKevin *******
OP@Werner ***********
yes but that's not what the instructions say, it's what the lady at the counter said. See the "TikTok moment" in my description. :-)
Wouter *********
I'm curious what the 'sponsorship letter' should say esp. since she said 'personal account only'?
Kevin *******
OP@Wouter ********
I was using my own money, not a sponsorship letter, so I don't know, but presumably that would have a different set of rules and would probably only apply to soft-power DTV. But I'm just guessing, and obviously I'm not the best guesser. :-)
Cliff *********
Los Angeles office wanted an updated balance with date, account number, my name.
It’s actually a business account and has a lot more than the requirements.
Sorry you got messed with…..
It’s actually a business account and has a lot more than the requirements.
Sorry you got messed with…..
Kevin *******
OP@Cliff ********
thanks for the kind words. Next try will be through LA for Online Basket Weaving, probably, so good to know that.Cliff *********
@Kevin ******
I did for workationKevin *******
OP@Cliff ********
did you do it in-person in LA? I though all the US applications had to go through the Embassy (i.e. online visa) -- am I wrong?
Arron *********
Savanaket is best for Visa. Nice guy opposite name Tony can help a lot.
Rogerio ******
So weird all the care done for this.
I applied online via one of the US locations, using 'soft power' with a medical procedure letter (from a cosmetic clinic), bank statement, and 15 days later it was approved. literally 2 docs.
I applied online via one of the US locations, using 'soft power' with a medical procedure letter (from a cosmetic clinic), bank statement, and 15 days later it was approved. literally 2 docs.
Duncanc **********
Sucks that this happened to you - but yeah. Personal account.
Company funds aren’t actually your money in the same way - it’s owned by the company and has a whole heap of tax related hoops to go through before it’s yours. I feel your frustration but they’re correct in the government bureaucrat way
Company funds aren’t actually your money in the same way - it’s owned by the company and has a whole heap of tax related hoops to go through before it’s yours. I feel your frustration but they’re correct in the government bureaucrat way
Kevin *******
OP@Duncanc *********
in this context -- US SMLLC -- actually they *are* my money in the same way. But I get that this requires some explanation, and it was my bad for thinking it would be OK and/or I would be able to explain it.
Daisy *****
😮💨😮💨😮💨 sorry you had such a rubbish experience, this really sucks. Thank you so much for sharing everything though, super appreciated and I’m sure many will find it helpful. Wishing you the best 🙏🏼🩷
Kevin *******
OP@Daisy ****
thanks for the kind words! The mistakes were all mine, and I hope I helped someone out there to not repeat them.
Lynnette *******
A business account isn't a personal bank account.
Kevin *******
OP@Lynnette ******
thank you very much for clarifying, however as I noted the requirement did not specify that it needed to be a personal account.
Garrett ***********
"selling condos" isn't working illegally. You do not need a visa/work permit to invest in real estate or the Thai stock market, or bonds for that matter.
Kevin *******
OP@Garrett **********
I truly wish the guy well, I liked him, but I don't buy that: real-estate agent is an occupation. Dude was not flipping condos on his own dime.
Did *****
That was unfortunate that you did overthink the requirements for funds :(
Why on earth would it take 4 days to transfer the money , that seems utterly crazy 🤯 It takes seconds in most countries.
Why on earth would it take 4 days to transfer the money , that seems utterly crazy 🤯 It takes seconds in most countries.
Kevin *******
OP@Did ****
yeah, it's a USA thing. There are ways to transfer money instantly between US accounts, but they are not the default way, and are sometimes unavailable. For little people, 3 business days is normal. Having lived in Europe and gotten used to instant SEPA transfers, it's very annoying. And yes, I did overthink it.
Alfred ***********
@Kevin ******
you're right 30 seconds from time of release of swift to funds on account anywhere in the world. Ok thailand is different release funds at 7 a.m. CET and finds arrive next day at 10 a.m if you're lucky otherwise two days
Alfred ***********
@Kevin ******
I'm sorry but I'm a banker an Treasurer but yes it does depend where you are sending from and to. Look I can get Kenyan schillings to Columbia in a day. It's probably your bank. All banks are idiots u know I've worked for the best on Wall Street doesn't matter.Kevin *******
OP@Alfred **********
don't think so for US origin. ACH is supposed to be "instant" but that's very much not been my experience. Used to do Swift transfers all the time, they took days for mere civilians, sometimes weeks outside the West.There's a reason Venmo is a massive juggernaut in the US.
Did *****
@Kevin ******
Thanks for the information 👍🏻
Rene ******
@Did ****
delay to prevent fraud?Kevin *******
OP@Rene *****
no, apparently it's due to legacy systems and maybe soon they will be upgraded. There is way more money moving instantly in any given second than what us plebs might want to transfer, and a lot of it is dodgy AF, but we have pleb rules.Kevin *******
OP@Rene *****
I once did about 100K in multiple 2K SEPA instants and it was no problem -- I think the basic EU principle is that they've got the data and they will prevent ridiculously obvious abuses, but for stuff like money laundering they'll just mine the data later, it's not hard. The US by contrast has no special logic behind the delays, just inertia. Modernizing will cost someone money, how much power does that someone have to block it, etc.Rene ******
*****************************************************************************************
Rene ******
@Kevin ******
ah ok. In NL there is a system with an "virtual intermediair bank", so we get money in seconds. Above (in my case) 5000 euro, there is a delay of 4 hours to prevent fraud.
James *******
Well yeah, in what country are your business funds considered money to do what you like with?
Terry ********
@James ******
in the USA, a single member LLC is considered to be the same as a sole proprietor for tax purposes. So yes, you can do whatever you want with the money.James *******
@Terry *******
Just because you are a sole proprietor surely the money isn't considered personal and you have rules as to what expenditure is company related as otherwise no one would ever pay tax would they? Surely you cannot expect visa officials to be accountants too.
Raquel ***********
@James ******
It is considered personal, and don't call me Shirley.Kevin *******
OP@Terry *******
which is what I tried to explain, my first mistake being to think that the officer would understand or even listen to that. :-)
Eric ******
@James ******
Embezzlement?😁
Andrew *********
Last time I did e visa, my friends did visa on arrival, they were thru 10 mins quicker than me
Brandon ************
@Andrew ********
they all go to the same line. It wouldn't make any difference.And your friend didn't have visa on arrival, they had visa exempt.
Andrew *********
@Brandon ***********
that day there were more people with e visa's than VOA, it is the same as arriving in Thailand, luck of the draw if immigration is busy or quiet, only bonus with E Visa is you don't lose a whole page in your passportKevin *******
OPFor the curious: yes, you go to the same line for eVisa and Visa on Arrival, however you go to the eVisa line *after* getting your VoA if you need one.
Which can take a while: I had about 30 people in front of me, almost all Chinese. If you happened to hit a bunch of well-prepared eVisa holders I could see it being slower, but when I was there it was about 100 people for VoA and about 5 for eVisa.
Also: the VoA price is posted as $40 but they guy really didn't like my USD so to speed things up I paid THB which was 1700 and boom, you're back at your eVisa price.
Which can take a while: I had about 30 people in front of me, almost all Chinese. If you happened to hit a bunch of well-prepared eVisa holders I could see it being slower, but when I was there it was about 100 people for VoA and about 5 for eVisa.
Also: the VoA price is posted as $40 but they guy really didn't like my USD so to speed things up I paid THB which was 1700 and boom, you're back at your eVisa price.
Andrew *********
@Brandon ***********
I'm talking about in VientianeBrandon ************
That's surprising then. It should be faster for sure.
Bob **********
I’ve seen some agents asking 100k and up for help
Kevin *******
OP@Bob *********
I was quoted north of that for actually coming with you to Lao and walking you through it, which I think is not crazy if you need that much help.
Bo **********
@Bob *********
What a scame.... My frend.. Told agent No and 1min later it went from 40.000bath to 20.000 bath and then 15.000bath and My frend to okey to15k...
John *******
Yeah, it has been mentioned several times (here or DTV page) that one can’t use their business bank account for proof of funds.
Kevin *******
OP@John ******
thanks, but I did not see it mentioned here. Maybe an oversight on my part.
Frozan *******
Michael ********
Should also get e visa then dont lose a page of your passport
Kevin *******
OP@Michael *******
yes, I thought I mentioned that? Actually it's a page and a half, because the in and out stamps are not done on the full-page visa. Lesson learned, in case I ever come back to Lao PDR.
John *********
What is TLDR.
Kevin *******
OPIt's internet slang for "Here is a summary, because the following article could be considered boring."
Andi ***********
@John ********
Too long didn't read
Ben ***********
Ning ******
****************************************************************
%20embassy%20&op=translate use this : and tell the driver : visa aka bisaKevin *******
OP@Ning *****
noooo, bad advice. Our driver needed us to show him on Google Maps. Was not a language question. But definitely good to memorize "sathan toot" just in case!Elías ********
If by checking you mean one account than can use checks, it's not necessary, it can be also a savings account, but, yeah, as per the requirements it's supposed to be a personal account, not a business account. 😢
Kevin *******
OPHonestly I think a savings account would have been fine if it were on my name, as opposed to a business checking account -- but the lady said "personal checking' in no uncertain terms so I'm passing that along.
Paul *****************
@Elías *******
... cheque account or check account....?
Richard *****
@Paul ****************
Same-Same but different country!
John **********
@Paul ****************
depends where you're fromBob **********
@Elías *******
every embassy has there own rules and priceActivity
39 joined39
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