Unanswered13 days ago
What should I do if I can't apply for a DTV visa in the Netherlands due to my HSM status?
# The recent changes to the requirements left me in a deadlock. Does anyone have a similar experience to this?
I'm currently living in the Netherlands under an HSM visa scheme. Basically, working and living here with a definite residency period. The residency permit is tied to my working status and is renewable every 5 years as long as I keep working. I have nothing under my name in my home country, no bank accounts, no residence, no assets, nothing. I've been living in the Netherlands for the past 5 years.
The embassy responsible for my country (we don't have a Thai embassy) told me I need to check with the Dutch embassy (they also say in their rules one cannot apply if they are not residing AND living in their jurisdiction); however, the Dutch embassy told me I cannot apply with my current residence permit.
Does anyone have a similar experience? And what did they do?
*I'm eligible to apply for permanent residency in the Netherlands after living here for 5 years. Given the extraordinary delays in integration exam results and processing time, I expect it will take about 7 months to sort this out.*
I'm currently living in the Netherlands under an HSM visa scheme. Basically, working and living here with a definite residency period. The residency permit is tied to my working status and is renewable every 5 years as long as I keep working. I have nothing under my name in my home country, no bank accounts, no residence, no assets, nothing. I've been living in the Netherlands for the past 5 years.
The embassy responsible for my country (we don't have a Thai embassy) told me I need to check with the Dutch embassy (they also say in their rules one cannot apply if they are not residing AND living in their jurisdiction); however, the Dutch embassy told me I cannot apply with my current residence permit.
Does anyone have a similar experience? And what did they do?
*I'm eligible to apply for permanent residency in the Netherlands after living here for 5 years. Given the extraordinary delays in integration exam results and processing time, I expect it will take about 7 months to sort this out.*
Summary so far
The user is experiencing a deadlock in applying for a Thai DTV visa while living in the Netherlands under the HSM visa scheme. They are unable to apply with their current residency status, as advised by both the Dutch and Thai embassies. The conversation includes suggestions to apply from the home country or wait for permanent residency in the Netherlands, but highlights that the user has no assets or residency in their home country.
32 repliesnewest first
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choose*******
OP You seems to be stateless or a refugee ? I would suggest you stay and get residency in Netherlands before anything else or go back to your country and establish residency. If you do get DTV for 5 years, you will be in worse situation after 5 years is up ie you will definitely be stateless!
Anonymous *************
OPchooserich007 no, I said I'm on a HSM visa program. That is a Highly Skilled Migrant program. So I'm a resident in the Netherlands and have my original citizenship. The Thai embassy responsible for my passport country said I should check with the embassy where I reside (the Netherlands) and the Thai embassy in the Netherlands said my Type I residence permit is not eligible. So it is a deadlock situation.The Type I permit in the EU is a renewable permit with a definite time and a purpose of stay. In my case the purpose of stay is work, and I can renew it every 5 years (for an extra 5 years) as long as I work.
All my assets are in the Netherlands. I moved in my early twenties here so naturally I had nothing in my passport country.
All my assets are in the Netherlands. I moved in my early twenties here so naturally I had nothing in my passport country.
Frank-Steven ***********
Typical Thai way of making rules (or fixing them) without ever fully thinking things through, first. Your kind of "residency" in the Netherlands clearly should suffice - but it seems that it does not. So, since you are not a permanent resident in the Netherlands, the logical conclusion is that you are still considered a resident of your passport country. Hence, apply with the Thai consulate responsible for your passport country. Problem there: You are expected to actually be in their jurisdiction while applying (in some regions even for the whole duration of your application being processes). That may or may not be practical. Typical Thai bureaucracy chicken and egg f*ck-up.
Anonymous *************
OP@Frank-Steven **********
the embassy responsible for my passport country asked me to check with the dutch embassy. Even if they accept to process my application and I go back temporarily to visit my passport country then I anticipate it will be a problem of documentation. They will process all documents from a foreign country such as the employer statement, bank statements, etc. which will most likely cause issues 😔
Frank-Steven ***********
Anonymer Teilnehmer That is a real risk, yes. While I doubt they will challenge you on the residence issue when applying in your passport jurisdiction - foreign supporting documents like bank statement, employment etc might come with problems … at least extra (sometimes ridiculous) bureaucracy like notarization and legalization.
André ******
The DTV has to be applied from the country where you reside. And if you do not live in the country of which you are a citizen, you can't apply from there and I believe you won't be able to apply from the Netherlands either because you are not a Dutch citizen
Sometimes there just isn't a quick fix to the problem......
I think you only have 2 choices to obtain a DTV Visa - either wait for the Dutch citizenship and apply from the Netherlands or move back to your home country and apply from there
Sometimes there just isn't a quick fix to the problem......
I think you only have 2 choices to obtain a DTV Visa - either wait for the Dutch citizenship and apply from the Netherlands or move back to your home country and apply from there
Luit *****************
Be careful that HSM has restrictions you never can leave Netherlands over one time 6 months in the 5 year period and only 4 months in the rest of the years, unless you have to work for your employer outside Netherlands.
So a Thai DTV in combination with Dutch HSM is not the most logical one.
So a Thai DTV in combination with Dutch HSM is not the most logical one.
Anonymous *************
OP@Luit ****************
thanks for the headsup! yes I'm planning to apply for a workation as remote worker route. Working remotely for my dutch employer. I will get the permanent residency anyway within 7 months so that won't be a problem I can switch to fully nomad then if I want. Although I don't plan to for now.
Shandy ********
The HSM visa has a requirement that you spend 4 out of the year in the Netherlands. And you have to maintain an address in the Netherlands. Perhaps they do not consider you eligible because you'd have the ability to spend more than 8 months out of the year in another country if you had the DTV, and they'd have no way of monitoring this. I can't say I agree completely with this view, but I know that the Netherlands has a fairly narrow concept of residence. Perhaps you can
Anonymous *************
OP@Shandy *******
they have no way to monitor what? Entry/Exit is monitored. But this still doesn't make sense, the Netherlands has nothing to do with this as a government. The Thai embassy in the Netherlands is the one saying they don't accept Type I residency to apply for DTV.Even if I had a permanent residency (Type II or Type V), there are ways to lose it as well during the 5 years of having the DTV visa.
Shandy ********
Anonymous participant "The Netherlands has nothing to do with this as a government. The Thai embassy in the Netherlands is the one saying they don't accept Type I residency to apply for DTV." Right, but the embassy with jurisdiction for that country will likely adopt their host country's definition of residency and they might consider you a risk for violating the visa's physical presence requirements. This is my theory, of course. If the Thai Embassy in NL provided you an explanation, perhaps you'd have a better idea of how to proceed with your application. If you want to try changing their minds, I think you can try politely saying the Netherlands is currently your ONLY residence and that you are aware of the physical presence requirements in the country to keep the visa.
Anonymous *************
OP@Luit ****************
I'm eligible for type V permanent residency (Long term EU resident) which gives me 12 consecutive months outside the EU. With PR, I can work for whoever without a work permit, and I can have my own company in the EU to route my work and taxes if needed. But I will most likely neutralize as well at some point so it should be okay.
Luit *****************
Anonieme deelnemer Waiting might indeed be the easiest option, but my experience with IND are that things sometimes take a lot of time.
The police report always has to be from the country you apply in.
I never have seen requirements from where a flight originates, so I don't think that would be a problem for you.
Be careful that even with a permanent residency the 6 months / 4 months scheme still is in place with an exception when you work for your company abroad.
Not sure if IND sees remote work you choose for as such, or that onley when employer wants you to work outside Netherlands counts as such.
The police report always has to be from the country you apply in.
I never have seen requirements from where a flight originates, so I don't think that would be a problem for you.
Be careful that even with a permanent residency the 6 months / 4 months scheme still is in place with an exception when you work for your company abroad.
Not sure if IND sees remote work you choose for as such, or that onley when employer wants you to work outside Netherlands counts as such.
Anonymous *************
OP@Luit ****************
yes it is confusing. So now even if the embassy responsible for my country accepts to handle my application (till now the last thing I heard from them is that I need to check with the embassy in the Netherlands) they will have to deal with documentation of a foreign country (employer statement, bank account statements, perhaps the criminal record, etc.) and maybe they require that the flight originates from my passport country as well 😅 it is kind of limbo state. I guess the best option for me is to wait around 7 months more to hold the Dutch permanent residency and apply here 🤷Luit *****************
Anonieme deelnemer I think the requirement of PERMANENT residency is a bit strange for a visa meant for digital nomads.
It would make sense if they asked for a temporary residence period of let's say 6 months or so.
Also the official requirement was announced as permanent residency OR citizenship.
Citizenship technically does not need that you live in your home country, just staying there at an address should be enough legally, but not all embassies know how to interpret these rules.
It would make sense if they asked for a temporary residence period of let's say 6 months or so.
Also the official requirement was announced as permanent residency OR citizenship.
Citizenship technically does not need that you live in your home country, just staying there at an address should be enough legally, but not all embassies know how to interpret these rules.
Anonymous *************
OP@Shandy *******
I've already prefaced my email with all details mentioned in the post. All my assets and my only address are in the Netherlands. They didn't provide further details. I already got a tourist visa a while ago from the same embassy and with my current documentation. So I don't fully get the physical violation bit. That can be violated with any permit or even with citizenship.The Netherlands defines me as a resident 😃 what I have is a residence permit and I'm paying taxes here, I can even vote for municipal elections now 😃. But as I mentioned earlier, even if I had what is technically called permanent residency I can still lose it if I live outside the EU more than 6 months with a type II permit or 1 year with a type V permit.
TheBatman**********
You have answered your own question. The Dutch government cannot grant you a permanent residency so why are you upset that you can't apply for DTV from the Netherlands? It's not the Thai government's fault; it's the Dutch's
Anonymous *************
OPTheBatman1234567890 who said the dutch government cannot grant me permanent residency? they can, however, the process is lengthy due to some unforeseen delays in integration exams evaluations.
The question from this post is in bold, and it is for people who had similar situations to mine and what they ended up doing. It seems you didn't properly identify the actual question I'm asking here. Based on the rules from each embassy I'm not eligible to apply in both.
Plus, speaking of being upset, there is confusion overall. Originally, most people thought the new rules were meant to stop abuse for people who go to random and easier countries with tourism purposes to apply. But it also creates frustrating situations like this where a person who is actually a tax resident in country X becomes in a limbo.
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*****
*****
who said the dutch government cannot grant me permanent residency? they can, however, the process is lengthy due to some unforeseen delays in integration exams evaluations.The question from this post is in bold, and it is for people who had similar situations to mine and what they ended up doing. It seems you didn't properly identify the actual question I'm asking here. Based on the rules from each embassy I'm not eligible to apply in both.
Plus, speaking of being upset, there is confusion overall. Originally, most people thought the new rules were meant to stop abuse for people who go to random and easier countries with tourism purposes to apply. But it also creates frustrating situations like this where a person who is actually a tax resident in country X becomes in a limbo.
TheBatman**********
Anonymous participant that's what I meant to say. The Dutch government has not granted you the residency yet so why see you whining?
Anonymous *************
OPTheBatman1234567890 which part is whining? The question is for people who are in a similar situation and what they ended up doing. The question is marked in bold in my post. You are clearly not in a similar situation and have nothing useful to say so why commenting at all?
**********
*****
*****
which part is whining? The question is for people who are in a similar situation and what they ended up doing. The question is marked in bold in my post. You are clearly not in a similar situation and have nothing useful to say so why commenting at all?
Sascha **********
Someone posted recently (in the last month or so) in the exact same situation, also under HSM in NL. Perhaps you can find their post in this group and ask them if and how they solved this.
Anonymous *************
OP@Sascha *********
it was me. I'm posting again after contacting both embassies for better visibility.
Sascha **********
Anonymous participant oooohhh sorry 🫣
Kool *******
Even though your passport country doesn't have a Thai embassy, you still apply online from there, with your police report from there. You have no other choice.
Anonymous *************
OP@Kool ******
I understand, I already contacted them. They say I should check with the dutch embassy given that's where my residency is. Their rules published online for processing applications state that I should be residing AND living in the country where I'm applying for from the list of countries they are responsible for.
Kool *******
Anonymous participant the Thai embassies require official residency, and the Dutch government said you do not have that. You can not get a dtv if you are not going back to your passport country. It is that simple. The Dutch government isn't going to change their mind. Their answer to you is in their computer system comments.
Anonymous *************
OP@Kool ******
yes but still the dutch government has nothing to do with this, so I don't understand your comment about "the government won't change its mind". I'm effectively living full time in the Netherlands for more than 5 years now and all my assets are here. I have a resident permit renewable every 5 years. Though yes, technically this is not called "permanent residency". There is a different residency permit called "permanent" and is not linked to purpose of stay.The embassy responsible for my country told me that I need to check with the Dutch embassy. They also say in their official applications rules that I need to be residing and living in the country I apply from. So if I must apply from my passport country in theory I should move my life back to my passport country. Which doesn't make much sense and is not possible. That is the deadlock I'm referring to in my post. I'm basically stuck.
Kool *******
Anonymous participant because under the Thai immigration requirements you do not meet the residency requirements for the dtv. You must have official residency,cand you don't.
Anonymous *************
OP@Kool ******
why are you talking about the dutch government? the government has nothing to do with this. I'm officially residing in the Netherlands and I'm paying my taxes and my pension here and I have a permanent work contract and a permanent rental contract.
Breathtaki***********
It's simple. If the Dutch authorities say you cannot apply there with your current residence status you need to go back to your passport country and apply there.
Anonymous *************
OPBreathtakingGoose8959 I understand, I already contacted the embassy responsible for my country. They say I should check with the dutch embassy given that's where my residency is. Their rules published online for processing applications state that I should be residing AND living in the country where I'm applying for from the list of countries they are responsible for.
SwiftRasp*********
You need to apply in your home country or country of permanent residence.
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