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What are the challenges and complexities of visa regulations for expats in Thailand?
Jan 18, 2023
3 years ago
Sven *******
ORIGINAL POSTERLeft hand, right hand in Thailand ... it never works. On the one hand they want people to stay longer (it was so expected for those 45 days not to go away, despite people telling others it will end). On the other hand, if people stay too long (sometimes as little as two consecutive entries), they are increasingly getting harrassed upon entry at the borders. Man, if once all these different departments and little chiefs could be on the same page.
TLDR : Answer Summary
The conversation highlights the conflicting perspectives of Thai authorities on visa regulations for tourists and expats. While there is a push for longer stays like the 45-day visa exemption, many expats report increased scrutiny and harassment when trying to re-enter after short-term stays, often perceived as attempts to stay long term without appropriate visas. The discussion touches on the nuances of working remotely in Thailand, with opinions varying on whether such work requires a permit. This has led to frustrations among expats who feel that the immigration rules are inconsistently enforced and complicated by various government departments' conflicting goals.
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Robert **********
I got the impression with Covid and everything that about
***
of Thais want to welcome foreigners unconditionally, ***
want to do the reasonable right thing, and ***
hate Farangs and would kick us all out except 2-week wealthy tourists. I guess within the government, they duke it out.Jo **********
@Robert *********
so become a wealthy touristRobert **********
@Jo *********
no interest, live here long termJo **********
@Robert *********
good answer!Reply to
Jo **********
Reply
Juan ********
Yes because they dont want to end up like Sweden
And i understand
And i understand
Raymond *****
Wow that's 1900 bahts saving from an extension
Lior *******
Well, after 2(45 +30). You are not really a "tourist" and they are totally right. You can always purchase a suitable visa (elite for example)
Wolfgang *******
@Lior ******
Yes. They know that 99% tourists working people in there home country. Which country give you 75 days holiday twice?Jo **********
@Lior ******
agreeReply to
Jo **********
Reply
Russell *******
I think you will find the same madness anywhere in the world. It's just the nature of immigration 🙏
Steve *******
@Alistair *********
would agree with that. For many years before moving here I would come for a couple of months every year as a tourist. As I was self employed in the UK and in winter had very little work.Jeremy ********
Eventually it will be permanent
Robert *********
That’s rather disingenuous opinion.
The rules changed in tourists’ favour ie longer period of 45 days for visa exempt. And that’s extendable by 30 days.
That some over stay or continuously attempt visa bounces is a different matter as and - as always - subject to the immigration vagaries but at least there is some form of latitude. (The rule is stated regarding the number of land or air entries permitted per year too)
Maybe if we compare this to what would happen if one tried the multi-visa-bounce-cheap-charlie plan in europe, usa or better still, The Middle East. Rubber glove time.
The rules changed in tourists’ favour ie longer period of 45 days for visa exempt. And that’s extendable by 30 days.
That some over stay or continuously attempt visa bounces is a different matter as and - as always - subject to the immigration vagaries but at least there is some form of latitude. (The rule is stated regarding the number of land or air entries permitted per year too)
Maybe if we compare this to what would happen if one tried the multi-visa-bounce-cheap-charlie plan in europe, usa or better still, The Middle East. Rubber glove time.
Robert *********
This will help you work it out. You cannot reenter after 90 days is spent without waiting 90 days. Oh don’t tell me, UK Gov = fake news?
Robert *********
***********************************************************************************************
Robert *********
@Marc *******
ok then good luck with your travel and visa business. I’ll tell my immigration lawyer in portugal to fire himself.Robert *********
@Marc *******
better stay off the Leos so early Marc. The rule is no more than 10 Leos in a 6 hour period as you well know.
Or in your case, keep re-entering
****
on Leo beer runs and carry on drinking…Robert *********
@Marc *******
I am starting to form the distinct impression that anything you don’t agree with is dismissed as ‘fake’ and ‘phoney’.Perhaps it’s a verbal tick or a defence mechanism picked up from a University debating club?
When a waiter brings you a pizza you didn’t like = “fake food!”
Bobby ********
@Marc *******
Do you enjoy talking out of your asshole? Some kind of kinky experience? Because all you're talking is bullshitRobert *********
@Bobby *******
I’m set on becoming a non tax paying, digital nomad based in Europe for a considerable length of time. The plan is to swan around whilst I curate content for my digital journey.
Note it’s not a holiday but a journey; a digital journey.
And get followers on my channel to pay me to watch my doing nothing much during my special journey.
Can anyone provide me with reliable visa advice?
Bobby ********
@Robert ********
Yes. Contact @Thai *****************************
Marc ********
@Bobby *******
🆗️🐵Bobby ********
@Marc *******
Difference is I didn't delete most of the comments I'd made! That's a cackleMarc ********
@Bobby *******
🆗️💩Marc ********
@Bobby *******
Right now ain't spreading nothing at all dude.Bobby ********
@Marc *******
No, because you've deleted all your crap posts. I just want others reading this thread to know that you have no idea what you're talking aboutMarc ********
@Bobby *******
🆗️ dude whatever turns your crankMarc ********
@Bobby *******
And? 😅🤡Bobby ********
@Marc *******
You've deleted all your crap. Speaks volumes 😂😂😂😂Marc ********
@Bobby *******
Yes 🤡 have something to laugh now😆Bobby ********
@Marc *******
Yep. You've made yourself look like a total idiot!! Well done! A special kind of stupidMarc ********
@Bobby *******
No I am not. You can stay 3 months in Schengen Europe and then go to a european country not in Schengen like Croatia and stay there 3 months. Go back to Schengen and stay 3 months again. Then leave Schengen and go to Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania or UK.So you can stay the full year in Europe.
Bobby ********
@Marc *******
Have you any idea what it takes for a Thai citizen to get a Schengen Visa??? You think they can turn up at the airport and get stamped in to Europe for 45 days????? Please take your hand off your dick and stop spreading bullshitMarc ********
@Bobby *******
I did never say Thais can come to Schengen easily.Wtf you want to put words in my mouth😆
Bobby ********
@Marc *******
It seems you've deleted a lot of your posts, which indicates you're talking bs. Go play with yourself somewhere elseMarc ********
@Bobby *******
Nope I did argue with him about the 90 day in 180 day rule.Not about Thais coming to Europe
Bobby ********
@Marc *******
You have little idea of this subject. Perhaps just jog on?Marc ********
Bobby ********
@Marc *******
I'm not the one spreading the misinformation.Reply to
Robert *********
Reply
Robert *********
@Marc *******
dude, regarding the fake news of a ******
rule…Robert *********
@Marc *******
I’m inferring the need to leave for a period in order to maximise the number of days in Europe within a year. Which is the game I thought we were playing per the original post - ie people trying to ‘continually’ live in Thailand doing perma visa bounces.
The rule is 90 per 180 days so if you wanted to stay for longer than 90 days how would you do this within a 180 day period?
Perhaps the confusion is that:
It’s 90 per 180 days (regardless of how many visa runs/entries made)
It’s not 90 days per entry regardless. eg If you have used up any of your 90 days in last 180
I dont wish to sound patronising, but please don’t be rude; just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean it’s fake news.
Robert *********
@Marc *******
you will not get 90 days on each entry if a subsequent entry breaks the ******
rule. The ******
rule can’t be broken irrespective of number of visa runs attempted etc.Robert *********
@Marc *******
let’s leave this now. I gather your friends have told you other things but this doesn’t change the rule.
I’m ashamed to say I have broken the speed limit - on the same road - a number of times. But this sadly has not changed the speed limit.
The rule is
******
days irrespective of the number of entries/visa runs undertaken. It’s not quite the same how the Thai immigration rules are described:
ie x days per entry (but limits to the number of entries per year allowed).
Schengen is perhaps more straightforward?:
******
days. If you have stayed for 90 (within 180) days, you will have to wait until your 180 days ‘resets’ to renter to get another 90. (ie 3 months)
Sure, you can use up your
******
allowance how you wish; unlimited entries but not so it offends the ******
rule .Re Croatia yes -when Croatia was outside Schengen - you could run there for…90 days (ie 3 months per my fake news comment that upset you so)
(Croatia is now part of Schengen. They joined recently. And they have the euro)
Reply to
Robert *********
Reply
Robert *********
@Marc *******
re Europe. You definitely cannot leave and immediately reenter for another 3 months.
You must leave for 3 months before returning. It’s 6 months in any one year.
Thailand are merely attempting to enforce their equivalent policy.
Can you imagine if the Cheap Charlie’s a la Thailand attempted this: all the groups would be full of “…how can I rent an inflatable dingy to go to Dover for a day then return that evening”?
Robert *********
@Marc *******
**********************************************************************
Bobby ********
@Marc *******
All that aside, do you know the hoops which Thais have to jump through to even get a visa? My lady has to provide letter from her employer stating position, length of service and salary, bank statements, land title deeds and details of immediate family, and pay around $1000 AUD for the visa. She can't just turn up at the airport and get a free 45-day stamp!Robert *********
@Bobby *******
indeed. There’s a distinct whiff of entitlement in some parts regarding “…but why can’t I stay for as long as I like. Followed by “…I probably single handily prop up the Thai economy with my bar bill” 😎Bobby ********
@Robert ********
The funniest ones were the Cheap Charlies who couldn't get into Thailand during covid. They were bleating "let us in, we have money to spend, we can help save the economy". Now they're back, they're complaining about a 5baht increase in beer prices, and the 20 baht luggage fee in taxis from the airport. And best of all the 300 baht "tourist tax". Now we get "well I'll be going to Cambodia in future"! Yeah. Save the economy. Thailand doesn't want or need these tight-assesBonnie *******
@Bobby *******
luggage tax?Robert *********
@Bobby *******
Too true. Lived in Phnom Penh for a bit - I was the one of the few ‘expats’ with a real visa and sufficient funds to buy a meal involving cutlery.Reply to
Robert *********
Reply
Robert *********
@Marc *******
no point arguing here. Do please read. The rules are quite clear.Reply to
Robert *********
Reply
Jo **********
it could be that they are seeing people staying longer than 30 days on visa exempt which is good thing. And realized it’s paying off
Incognia **********
Because of there are many foreigners working illegal with tourist visa and visa runs
Paul *******
@Wylie ******
it is indeed a grey area.Paul *******
@Wylie ******
anyway thanks for your links and comments but I refuse to get into another "whataboutism" debate. Legally speaking I know what is allowed and what isn't and what hasn't been officially defined. Prostitution is illegal but we all know corruption plays a big role there. In practice Prostitution is tolerated so generally there isn't a raid just on that basis alone. Underage Prostitution or foreigners working as prostitutes is what causes the authorities to react.Wylie *******
@Paul ******
Yes, but just because the law doesn't carve out specific legislation for online work doesn't mean that some online work doesn't fall within the current laws and definition of work requiring a permit. Which then does put it in the same category as vaping and prostitution.It's more accurate to say it's a grey area and it would be prudent not to advertise ones online work than to say it's 100% legal. Thanks for the discussion. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the semantics.
Reply to
Wylie *******
Reply
Paul *******
@Wylie ******
vape pens are illegal in Thailand. Very different example.Paul *******
@Wylie ******
I was the one who brought up the raid of the coworking space where everyone was released. It wasn't the only time either. Like I said, there isn't a specific law covering digital nomads hence it's neither legal nor illegal. It becomes a problem once you're doing something involving Thais or Thailand then of course a work permit is needed even if it's based online.Also, the nature of what constitutes "working" is loosely defined.
You could be living in Thailand and only occasionally answering an email or taking a phone call from abroad in the same vein as a tourist hence I don't believe immigration would say someone on a tourist visa can do that but someone on a longer term one can't. Either both will have trouble or neither.
Or you could be spending half your time working abroad say as a FIFO worker and the other half in Thailand not really working.
There are so many possibilities and you can't really put people into this category or that category.
Paul *******
@Wylie ******
that website isn't an official government source.The reality is, there is no law covering digital nomads and performing tasks for a foreign based employer while in Thailand.
Legally speaking, it's neither permitted nor prohibited as such but in the rare cases an investigation has been made there has never been any charges brought forward provided no Thailand based entity is involved. The one exception that may attraction the attention of the authorities is if the activity, despite being based abroad, involves something illegal such as human,drug or weapons trafficking.
There is NO option to be granted a work permit if working as a digital nomad or any remote based work for a foreign employer while in Thailand.
The LTR visa with its "digital work permit " aims to bridge the gap somewhat for that particular visa category alone but in the absence of specific legislation it can't be considered as legalizing remote work.
Paul *******
@Jo *********
no. The Thai immigration department has clarified its OK to work remotely as long as the work does not involve Thailand or Thais in any way. There have been raids of coworking spaces in the past based on complaints from locals who didn't know what was going on and suspected illegal activities were taking place. Once investigations were concluded and it was determined none of the foreign nationals were working in Thailand they were let go.Despite this, many expats insist that it's illegal to write an email or take a phone call if it's "work related" despite not being related to Thailand.
I think I'll take the advice of immigration over some know it all farang expats.
That stated, the definition of work is broad so while it's OK to cut the branches of some trees in your yard, you can't help your neighbor. You can hold a dinner party and cook for your friends but you certainly can't earn anything by doing so.
Wylie *******
@Paul ******
Paul James I provided an official government website that clearly states what does and does not require a work permit. Are you saying that this incorrect? What one immigration office tells you and other anecdotal evidence does not overrule that. If you had bothered to read it it clearly states that doing work email, phone calls and some other things while on vacation does not require a work permit. It also clearly states that where the money comes from is not the main factor in determining anything.
"Even if a foreigner does not receive payment in Thailand, he could still be considered to be working"
I also stated that it is both difficult and rarely enforced, that doesn't make SOME online work any less illegal. Similar to vape pens and other laws. Yes, it's highly unlikely you'll run into an issue. That doesn't mean it's legal or that they won't decide to start enforcing it similar to them cracking down on fake volunteer or education visas and overstays.
Also, just because police raided a place and found no one breaking the law doesn't really mean squat. How many times have they raided places in Pattaya and found no prostitution?
I provided the correct information with an official government link so people can make an informed decision based on their circumstances, which is more informative than simply stating it isn't illegal at all. You can get all huffy puffy if you want and call people names, it doesn't change facts. You might as well tell people it's ok to ride a motorbike without a license while you're at it, since all you have to do is pay a small fine.
Marc ********
@Wylie ******
You did not provide an official website.But an interesting article explaining why it is officially illegal as an alien to do any kind of work in Thailand.
Wylie *******
@Marc *******
I provided two articles in two different comments. Perhaps you missed the first one. Although as I look closer you are correct, it is not an actual "official" website. But when you search there are plenty of articles and websites that say the same thing. I understand that doesn't make it official, but that doesn't mean it's not correct information.********************************************************************************
Alistair **********
@Wylie ******
you're also living in Thailand yet stuck with a Western mindset. Lots of illegal things happening dailyWylie *******
@Alistair *********
I'm not sure why providing information is considered a western mindset. I even stated it's rarely enforced and I never stated one should worry about it. That doesn't mean it's technically legal.I fully understand that things happen illegally daily and actually have no problem with quite a bit of it. In fact I prefer much of it over western law enforcement. I was simply providing actual information vs saying all online work is 100% legal. People can then make an informed decision based on their circumstances. I'm not sure why some people are getting all bent out of shape about that.
Reply to
Wylie *******
Reply
Paul *******
@Wylie ******
nonsense. There is no work permit required for digital nomads since none is available anyway.Sven *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stelar ******
I call that rumor and nothing else. I know so many people traveling long time and "working" remotely. But I know none out of those hundreds that work illegally in Thailand. AS long as they make money from outside of the country (by trading or by working for a foreign employer developing apps or what now), what difference does it make? They spend the same money as ordinary tourists, only much longer and thus more of it. Who in their right mind wants to work for Thai wages anyways? This is a myth.Marc ********
@Sven ******
Not a myth. Many of them here or used to be. That's why they made the border bounces much more difficult in the first place.Jonathan ********
@Sven ******
, regular tourists likely spend more, they daily stay in hotels, take tours, buy trinkets etc.Wylie *******
@Sven ******
working online remotely in Thailand is actually illegal and requires a work permit. There are some exceptions as to what is considered work, but I'd guess a lot of those 100s of people you know technically require a work permit.It doesn't matter if the money is made outside of thailand. Where the money is paid from is not one of the criteria used. Of course since it's hard to and rarely enforced everyone thinks it is 100% legal in all cases.
********************************************************************************
Victor *******
@Wylie ******
Wrong information. I checked the terms and rules a year ago with labour lawyers.. there were 5 of them with me and the result was, its all legal as long as you work for foreign company and get paid to foreign bank account. Only thing youre not eligible is social security by thai labor systemJo **********
@Wylie ******
that’s not entirely true. If I am here in Holiday and write some emails to a colleague i ambreaking the law?
Wylie *******
@Jo *********
no, it clearly states that in the link I provided and I never stated ALL online work requires a permit. What does and does not require a permit may be a grey area, but it does say simple emails and phone calls while on vacation does not. It is incorrect to say ALL online work is legal though, as others are trying to convey.Jo **********
@Wylie ******
ok understandWylie *******
@Jo *********
here's an excellent article on everything. What is and is not technically legal, why it's outdated, why there isn't a nomad visa yet, grey areas, what and why it isn't really enforced, and even mentions the raid at a co-working space in Chiang Mai.*******************************************************
Reply to
Wylie *******
Reply
Steve ********
The Tourism Authority is pushing for 45 days, Thai Immigration is pushing back - they don't want it, as they're losing too much money.
Paul *******
@Steve *******
those things have nothing to do with 45 day visa exemptions, which are for holidaymakers.You can still get a 30 day extension on a 45 day exemption. Any long term resident using an agent, will continue to "grease the wheels" so to speak and be completely unaffected by 45 day exemptions.
Such people tend to be on marriage or retirement extensions anyway.
So to conclude, immigration isn't going to notice anything from this.
Where they might be impacted, is in the rules that make it more difficult to get an education or volunteer visa even through an agent. This greatly reduces their revenue stream.
Paul *******
@Steve *******
ridiculous conspiracy theory.Alex *******
@Steve *******
Loosing too much money from?Steve ********
@Alex ******
Extensions after 30 days, and the "commission" from agents!Reply to
Steve ********
Reply
Paul *******
If you think it is difficult to stay in Thailand, my Thai wife had to jump through so many hoops to be able to0 holiday in Australia.
Paul *******
@Sven ******
it's not burdensome..it's only "burdensome" for prostitutes and bar girls and those without jobs. Too many Thai women have ended up becoming illegal prostitutes in Europe that young Thai women are scrutinized unless they hold decent white collar jobs and/or are aged above 35 or 40. It's easier for Thai men to be granted visas but again, if they're young men there is a concern of working illegally. Those working for well known Thai or multinational companies as well as those running their own businesses encounter few issues, especially if they've been before and have complied with the conditions.Paul *******
@Arnold ****
they can if they hold a decent job and it's easier for males to get a visa than females. Same as for Thais.Paul *******
@Paul ******
what hoops? My wife has a good job and she receives her visa very easily. She also gets a 12 month multiple entry visa without even asking for it.For Europe it's even easier. A 5 year multiple entry tourist/family visit visa is granted the same day and for free to Thais married to EU/Schengen nationals.
Av **********
@Sven ******
I mean, to get to Portugal my friend is doing it now she just has to show money and 3 years of tax returns.....for a normal person working that shouldn't be so hard....people without jobs is the ones they won't give it toArnold *****
@Paul ******
yup and a typical vietnamese can’t even go to americaSven *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Paul ******
I hear you. Same with getting people into the EU. A shame really to make it so burdensome for legit people to visit.Reply to
Sven *******
Reply
Alistair **********
They want tourists not people staying long term using short term visas/exemptions. Many countries are much stricter in their immigration policies.
Bonnie *******
@Alistair *********
the land border rule is ridiculous. We would love to travel back and forth in and out of Thailand but we have to limit our tripsAlistair **********
@Bonnie ******
METV solves the crossing issue. The rule is there to stop people abusing visa exemptions using border runsReply to
Alistair **********
Reply
Marc ********
@Alistair *********
most countries will give you 90 daysSven *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Alistair *********
If that were true, then the regular 30 days would do just fine. The regular / traditional tourist comes for two, three weeks and then goes back to work at home.Alistair **********
@Sven ******
I wouldn't class 45 days as long term. Plenty of genuine tourists stay longer than 30 days. Doing a couple of border runs without issue. There's a big difference between that and someone trying to live here long term on TV/Exemptions.Reply to
Alistair **********
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