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What options do I have to stay in Thailand with my daughter while my partner is unwell?
Visa extensionsNon-O extensionRetirement visaThai property lawImmigration proceduresLegal guardianshipWills and estate planningChildren's rights in Thailand
Nov 21, 2023
2 years ago
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTERMy wife (not official) brain cancer and cannot do much other then breathe. My non o extension comes due in February next year. She owns the lamd and house where we live with my 13 year old daughter (not official). She has a brother and sister (with family) with us in one of her houses. Any idea on what I need to do? Clarfication: I am on a non retirement extension. I do not want her land or any of her houses. I live in nomans land out in the country North of Korat. I am 68 years old. I do not want to move to another house. I know I can extend if I get a lease elswhere. We did not sign a lease for where I am staying with her now which is at her house.
TLDR : Answer Summary
The author is seeking guidance on how to remain in Thailand with his 13-year-old daughter while his partner, who is not officially recognized as his wife, has a severe illness (brain cancer) and is unable to assist. He currently has a non-O visa extension that expires in February and is concerned about his living situation regarding the family's properties. Discussion points include the need to consult a lawyer regarding his daughter’s status and possible guardianship, and the importance of ensuring proper documentation for his residency, especially in light of potential future property claims by the partner's family. Various suggestions from the community revolve around legal paths to secure his stay, focusing on his role as a guardian and possible options relating to TM30 registrations.
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Richard ********
@Brian ********
and Lawyers For Expats can assist I am sure.Brett *****
You really need a lawyer for this, best of luck
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTERStuart Cumming answered my question with take a copy of the house book and her id to immigration when applying for the extension. I had someone check with immigration and confirmed it. So, I am safe for now in securing mu exyension.
Pete ********
How about a "family"visa based on raising,caring for, your daughter? If possible, that would carry through her years of education .... Once at majority age she can sign the TM30
Or - do they have any ombudsman programs here..... If so they might be able to create an affidavit using your wife's fingerprint....
Thinking outside the box here, but it's a dire situation....
You also need to take measures to protect the property from any opportunistic interlopers....Somebody will swoop in trying to take it....
PS: You will need a competent interpreter to protect your interests on any newly introduced documents made by an attorney....There have been many examples of them cutting/placing themselves into position to take or claim property rights buried somewhere in the legalese fine print.....
Or - do they have any ombudsman programs here..... If so they might be able to create an affidavit using your wife's fingerprint....
Thinking outside the box here, but it's a dire situation....
You also need to take measures to protect the property from any opportunistic interlopers....Somebody will swoop in trying to take it....
PS: You will need a competent interpreter to protect your interests on any newly introduced documents made by an attorney....There have been many examples of them cutting/placing themselves into position to take or claim property rights buried somewhere in the legalese fine print.....
Garry ********
If everything goes to the daughter you shouldn't have a problem ?? Would you ??
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Garry *******
No probem.Reply to
John *******
Reply
Stephen *********
I don't know if these might be of some help.
@https://www.facebook*********************
Den *****
Sorry to hear about your wife. I would try to get a usufruct written in the chanot of her land. Maybe she needs to give power of attorney (if possible) to a relative to arrange this at the land department. Get sound legal advise !
Phil ***********
Sorry for you situation, I live in Thailand in a house I have built for my girlfriend and have a 20 year lease to stay in the house. Lease registered with the land Dept in hang dong.
Brian *********
Wow, I have no useful answers but feel for your difficulties. 😔
Peter *********
If she has no thai will giving you the land etc it will all be the brothers and family you will have nothing
Tulip ********
Very sorry to read of your sad news. Hope things work out. It shows how important wills are in Thailand. They are very easy to make and all couples should make them whilst they can.
Damien ********
Forget about a lawyer..u will just lose a good amount of money… u r at the mercy of the family as u have no legal right to the home. Can you stay living with the daughter and pay some rent ?
Good luck
Good luck
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTERThey do not have legal right to her prooerties as it sits now. I do not care about the property!
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTERHow to get them legal rightsbto sign for her would help? I am sure they will allow me to stay here.
Reply to
John *******
Reply
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Damien *******
Thanks!Reply to
John *******
Reply
Dave **********
@John ******
see a lawyer not sure the below applies as your not married but it does if married. You can not own but if the "wife" Will states your her Beneficiary and Executor you can have your name in the Chanote which allows you to sell the property, or keep the property with no time limit. You will need the Will written by a Thai Lawyer and go to Probate Court when your wife pases. I been there and although my passed without warning she left behind a will written Will. BTW we had been married 31 years when she passed and it was a first marriage for both us with no children
Dirk **************
@Dave *********
I am sorry for your loss 😞John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Dave *********
Thanks! Not worried about owning her 3 houses and land. Just want to stay here for our daughter's sake.Reply to
John *******
Reply
Jeff *****
Hope all will work out well for you
@John ******
!! 🙏🙏🙏Frank **********
Definitely talk to a lawyer and get sound legal advice. Also sorry about your wife. Good luck.
John **********
I assume that as you're not officially married you are living here on a retirement visa? If so you should just be able to continue with this. Is the daughter your wife's? If so she should be able to inherit so not sure what you mean in this regard?
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTERJohn Stanners And who signs the tm 30?
Carsten **********
@John ******
you can become the house master of the house you are stay in which is owned by your wife or daughter and can do your TM 30 as the house master. I did it during Covid with no problems. If you are on a retirement visa nothing will really change. You apply again every year like before. However, it is up to the new owner/family where you can stay.John **********
@John ******
I guess that will depend on whether you're on good terms with the family or not. Can you ask the brother or sister to do it? Also if you can get some sort of rental agreement you may be able to do it yourself?Reply to
John **********
Reply
Stuart *********
I’m sorry to hear about your wife’s condition.
You don’t state your age. There’s little to no chance of getting another marriage extension as you need to present the reason for your extension at the time of applying. There may be some leeway depending on the office you use. You’d need to check with them.
However if you are over 50 you can switch the reason for the extension to being over 50 provided you meet the financial requirements to do so.
If you have a family court acknowledge you as a legal parent (sole custodian) to your daughter you could switch to being a custodian of a Thai child until she is 20. I do not know the mechanics of doing this with your wife unable to endorse such an option.
As to the legalities of what would happen to the land and house etc you’d really need to consult a lawyer.
You don’t state your age. There’s little to no chance of getting another marriage extension as you need to present the reason for your extension at the time of applying. There may be some leeway depending on the office you use. You’d need to check with them.
However if you are over 50 you can switch the reason for the extension to being over 50 provided you meet the financial requirements to do so.
If you have a family court acknowledge you as a legal parent (sole custodian) to your daughter you could switch to being a custodian of a Thai child until she is 20. I do not know the mechanics of doing this with your wife unable to endorse such an option.
As to the legalities of what would happen to the land and house etc you’d really need to consult a lawyer.
Stevan ***********
@Stuart ********
he said 68Stuart *********
@Stevan **********
he edited his post.Reply to
Stuart *********
Reply
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stuart ********
Oficially not married on a non o extension and officially not having a daughter means that I am on a non o visa (retirement extension and over the age of 50). I understand your confusion as I did not state that I have a non o retirement extension. I just want to know how I can live at the same place. Who can sign for her.Stuart *********
@John ******
Ok if not officially married then you really don’t have any options. Thai law states that her assets will pass to a family member regardless that she may have made a will naming you as an heir. You can continue to stay in Thailand on your retirement extensions but where you can stay and those options will need to be checked with a lawyer who’s familiar with Thai estate laws.
I believe in theory that her estate would pass to her daughter, however I am not up on the legalities of this as she’s only 13 and there may be many more reasons that that can’t happen or consequences. You need the help of a professional.
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stuart ********
I do not give care about her estate. For my daughter sure. I just want to know how I can stay here. TM 30 is the only thing I can think of that would prevent me from staying at the same place. I live out here in no mans land. I know I can move to Korat and stay in Thailand but it would not be close to my daughter.Tim *******
@John ******
I know there is a provision to stay based on supporting your daughter. So see the lawyer. Good luckmStuart *********
@John ******
TM30 can be registered online. You need the owners id card and copy of tabien baan. You register for an account using those and they send you a password for access.Stuart *********
tm30.immigration.go.th
Nick ************
@Stuart ********
its tm30.ioStuart *********
@Nick ***********
That’s an unofficial private company not the official government websiteNick ************
@Stuart ********
thankyou. Does that mean it is not recognised?John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stuart ********
And lease? We never had a lease or contractStuart *********
@John ******
Not needed for the online system. ID and blue book is all.John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stuart ********
Ok. I wll give that a try. Thanks! I do know that she signed something each time at the end of my last two visits to immigration for my extensions. I do not know why though. Do you?Stuart *********
@John ******
Yes. There’s the online way of filing or there’s the manual way of filing at an immigration office. For the latter the owner must fill out the TM30 form and if not with you personally at filing time a “power of attorney” for enabling you to do so on their behalf.John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stuart ********
Ok. Thanks!Stuart *********
The manual way will require numerous documents from the owner like a signed ID copy, tabien baan and stuff. Each office has their own requirements so there may be other copies needed too. The online system is just way easier.
Reply to
Stuart *********
Reply
Tim *******
@John ******
Like someone said. Speak to a lawyer, and get the birth registered. Then you can stay as her supporter as she will be given the property. My thoughts but I am not a lawyer.Reply to
Tim *******
Reply
Will ************
Are you saying the marriage is not registered and you are not named on your daughters birth certificate ?
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Will ***********
Not official means not registered. I am named on my daughters birth certificate and we have not officially made it official at the amphur.Bob ********
@John ******
when she was born the hospital would have registered her on the government system, the number on her birth certificate goes on her ID card, passport etc. so if your name is on that certificate your are in the system as her father. She may not be in the house registration but that just a matter of checking what district she was born in and transferring her and registering where you are.John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Bob *******
Easy as long I go to the American embassy again as the Amphur has told us. First time an American passport and now again to get them to state officially I am her father. This has nothing to do with owning her Mother's house as I do not want another non o as I have a non o retirement extension already. I just want to live onbmy wifes' property.Reply to
John *******
Reply
John ********
Unfortunately I believe that you cannot own any of the homes or land for more than a year before you have to sale them, the best way forward is to get the wife to put the house and land in your daughters name or you may be able to do it yourself as your wife is unable to help go see a lawyer to find out more
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@John *******
I understand not owning the house. We found out earlier that we could not put our daughter on the land and house title. I just want to make sure I get to stay in Thailand. And my daughter gets the 3 houses that is on her land. One of them I built and know that I do not own it. My lost which I have always known. First, how do I stay here?John ********
@John ******
also your age if you are over 50 you can get a retirement visa You will need
*****
0 thb in your bank account in your name only you can see all the information for your retirement visa on the websiteJohn *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@John *******
I have a non o retirement extension.John ********
@John ******
so you would need to sort out the problems with your daughters registration, ie thar she is your responsibility for the near future and you will be happy to support her until she is old enough, as for the houses and land you have to go to see a lawyerReply to
John ********
Reply
John ********
@John ******
your daughter is the best way forward for you to stay in Thailand as she is 13 years old and will need a guardian to support her ie school and her care until she is old enough to be independent, you will need to go to see a lawyer to help you with the process and the immigrationJohn *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@John *******
Guardian. Thanks!Reply to
John *******
Reply
Neil ******
Probably too late to do anything, but I would advise you to talk to a lawyer.
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Neil *****
Will do.Reply to
John *******
Reply
Stuart ***********
I am not a Thai legal expert, but it seems you do not have many options.
What is your relationship like with her brother and sister, as I think your best option is to ask them if they will allow you to stay.
What is your relationship like with her brother and sister, as I think your best option is to ask them if they will allow you to stay.
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@Stuart **********
All I know is that they are taking care of her and my daughter. They come over here and clean the house, feed my daughter and take care of my wife next door (my wife's bigger house. There are two houses (actually 3 on her property)) and live at the biggest house. Since I give them 20,000 baht per month to take care of my wife and daughter,, I guess we are doing ok. I do not speak Thai that good and they do not speak English at all, who the hell knows?Stuart ***********
@John ******
I think you will be okay then John. Instead of spending money with lawyers, why not get someone that can talk Thai and English to sit down with you as a family and talk things through. Explain your needs/concerns and what a good solution looks like for you and your daughter as well as the fact you will continue paying every month. I suspect they will be willing to accept your ideas.I hope everything works out for you and your daughter. I realise it's a stressful and difficult time for you all.
Reply to
Stuart ***********
Reply
Colin *********
@Stuart **********
that's exactly what I was thinking...if the relationship with the 'wife's' family is good, hopefully they'll agree to @John ******
continuing to live with them. Legally, if John had owned, or part owned the house itself (foreigners cannot own the actual land), he would maybe have had some right to stay.Incognia **********
@Colin ********
i can be his interpreter.Incognia **********
@Colin ********
if my wife has land and after she died what happens this land?Reply to
Incognia **********
Reply
JF *******
She needs to make a will if possible.
John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@JF ******
She cannot move. All she can do is breathe.JF *******
@John ******
if you are not legally registered for marriage I dont think you will have anything in the way of inheritance, the same with your Visa. You could obtain a retirement visa if you are over 50 and have the necessary bank balance.John *******
ORIGINAL POSTER@JF ******
I need a TM 30I have lived in Thailand for 15 years. I need to live whereI am currently living out here in the boonies. I have a non o retirement extension already. Any other advise would be appreciated! I need a tm 30 from someone who only signs of life is breathing!
Nick ************
@John ******
if you have access to the house books and her id card you can register the property in her name and then upload your passport to get the tm30 registration form. That is what I do now and it saves me bothering my landlady every time I go away.Incognia **********
@Nick ***********
i was thinking same.This is the only option for him.Or pay a hotel gives him receipt maybeReply to
Incognia **********
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