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Answered5 years ago

What are the risks of using an agent to renew a Thai visa by spending down my 800k in the bank?

Ray *********
asked Nov 4, 2021
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I'm considering spending down the 800k I have in the bank and paying an agent to renew each year. I should be able to make 100k or more from investments and the agent should only cost around 20 to 25k.

What do people consider as the downsides to this approach?
Answer summary
Engaging an agent to renew a Thai visa without retaining the required 800k in the bank poses several risks. Opinions within the community highlight the legal grey area surrounding such practices, emphasizing potential repercussions from immigration authorities, including deportation or loss of visa legitimacy. Many suggest the importance of keeping funds for emergencies and using legitimate methods for visa renewal, such as the monthly income option. This approach can help avoid legal issues and ensure compliance with Thai immigration laws.
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Tony *******
Tony *******
Getting caught
Brian ********
Brian ********
Me at 78 to old for health insurance so I have to leave Thailand even with more than 50 thousand dollars in the bank
Jeff **********
Jeff **********
How can you be sure of making 100,000 gain annually

on 800,000 investment? That sounds highlyThat sounds highly speculative. What would you invest in? Just curious.
Leslie *********
Leslie *********
Just do the 65,000 baht per month income no agent required visa cost 1,900. Baht per year. Easy.
Maxim ***********
Maxim ***********
The people who have had issue have been using bad agent. Good agent work with immigration officer, everyone get their cut, and the stamps and everything are real. Agent can also do your 90 days report for a small fee. Something can be illegal but legit. For example, black market of lotto ticket in Thailand is illegal, but if you win, you get paid fully. Its illegal but not enforced, just like the use of agent. So there is no gray area, its illegal, but not enforced, and the process is legit.
Graham ********
Graham ********
The 800k is supposed to be for your unexpected expenses like a hospital bill. If you use a dodgie visa you will still need 800k to get you out of prison.
John **********
John **********
24 hours in the airport detention centre is enough!!!!
Stephen **********
Stephen **********
Agree with Richard
Hans *********
Hans *********
the next want be you have some less to 0!
Ian *********
Ian *********
You NEED 400k or 800k in bank or monthly amount that's very clear,any visa obtained without may be legal BUT HOW IT IS OBTAINED IS NOT

which means your visa will not be legal

VERY VERY OBVIOUS

if you don't have money in bank or monthly deposit fair enough but if you do why take the chance
Bobby ********
Bobby ********
Graham Castle. 500 baht from Bumrungrad

**************************************************************
Mike ************
Mike ************
Get an agent to do it and have the same agent get you 90 day immigration trip done and keep your money
Oliver ********
Oliver ********
The biggest (but low probability) risk is that immigration / police does one of their ocassional crackdowns on corrupt practices, which leaves those who obtained visas / extensions through such schemes needing to leave the cointry or worse. A smaller (but high probability) risk is that your investment portfolio doesn't produce +3% annual return (24k THB) in a particular year and you end up not actually saving any money (or losing). Even if things goes well, achieving +3% return will most likely require some time to monitor and manage the portfolio, and assuming you place a non-zero value on your time, the logic behind this plan unravels.
Kool *******
Kool *******
It is a toss up if the agent is good, or not. The good agents are basically the same as a loan shark. The bad agents bribe an immigration agent, or use fake stamps. Loan sharks are legal in their own right, as long as their interest fees are within the guidelines. They make about 1.5% more from investing in your retirement finances than in a bank. The others that bribe and use fake stamps can get you deported and banned if caught.
Ian *********
Ian *********
@Kool ******
are you unaware of the Thai defamation laws?
Kool *******
Kool *******
@Ian ********
what has that got to do with my comment? Did I post any name? Are you aware of what constitutes defamation in the Thai legal system? It doesn't look like it.
Vernon ********
Vernon ********
@Kool ******
Definately not the above !
Anthony ********
Anthony ********
The agent!
Rob ******
Rob ******
It totally depends WHO you upset or piss off .

99% have no problems , certain personalities make enemies who ...
Bobby ********
Bobby ********
Rob Tuck. My cousin didn't upset anyone, but got caught up in someone else's "upset".
Paul *******
Paul *******
Go to the bank, withdraw every penny do ten twirls and throw the money up in the air ,in the area of Soi cowboy and ask can I invest.
Baron *********
Baron *********
downside is the investment loses money
Benjamin ******
Benjamin ******
If you’re making 100K THB a month from investments, go on a one year extension of stay based on retirement using the income method. You only need to show 65K a month from overseas or get an embassy letter if your country still issues those letters
Bobby ********
Bobby ********
As others have said it is illegal, as the agent is pushing your money to an immigration office. I would never do it, mainly because I've witnessed first hand the result of such a process. Cousin in Chiang Mai used an agent in Pattaya to grease the machine. My cousin got caught up in an investigation following a complaint about someone totally unrelated to him. Apparently about a hundred expats who dealt with this agent were marked for "follow up". It was simple. I was actually visiting him the night (10.30pm) they knocked on his door. The request was simple "can we see your bank book". Of course the bank book had no money in it. It was arrest, sent to IDC, and he was charged with "overstay", as his extension was null and void. Deportation followed and he got a five year ban. There was no fine (other than 20,000 baht overstay), but he said his three days in IDC were the "most inhumane conditions" he'd ever encountered (and he'd worked down the mines in Africa 30 years ago).

My advice is switch to the 65k a month method. It's yours to spend as soon as you get it. You need money to live on anyway, and any surplus you can put into a better interest account, let it build up and send it back to your own country once a year to a better account. And sleep easy at night.
Frédéric ******************
Frédéric ******************
@Bobby *******
I visited the IDC several times as part of my job, it's really overcrowded like hell.
Ross ********
Ross ********
@Bobby *******
you are spot on....thanks for sharing
Martin *********
Martin *********
Never really a good idea to piss about with ones visa and all that goes with it.
John ********
John ********
Pay an agent and risk getting screwed,money’s safe in the bank
Jim **********
Jim **********
It's a no brainer, and that is why those agents make such good business. I've never understood why anyone would want to tie up 800k in a Thai bank a/c earning zilch - crazy.
Jim **********
Jim **********
exactomundo ...
Bobby ********
Bobby ********
Jim Flanagan. So you use the 65k per month method. Spend it as soon as you get it! Easy enough
Steve *******
Steve *******
Good luck. Just dont get caught! You'll be the one crying not the agent. It's not exactly a fake extention of stay it's just fraudulently obtained. Same meat different gravy!
Ian *********
Ian *********
@Steve ******
not legally obtained will mean the visa is not legal
Steve *******
Steve *******
@Ian ********
Well it's an extention of stay not a visa and of course it's not legal.
Ian *********
Ian *********
@Steve ******
agree but I called it a visa as most people don't seem to understand when you call it an extension of stay unless they already done it,tbh I didn't either till I done it myself
David *******
David *******
You could also lose 100k aswell i look at having the 800k in the bank 2 ways 1 for visa 2 for for emergencies
Brandon ************
Brandon ************
Depends on if the agent you're talking about straight up bribes an immigration officer to get the extension, or are they doing a little magic to show the 800,000? I think the 2nd may be less risky but still not quite legit.

Right now all of the agents aren't really doing anything because they just moved around all the heads of immigration offices so everything is at a halt while they figure out the new landscape.

This could happen while you're trying to renew in a future year and then you'd be pretty screwed.

Also once you start using an agent, you're basically beholden to using the same agent every year because you can't take your passport with a sketchy stamp and try to get a legit stamp the following year without facing a lot of scrutiny and extra questions.
Bobby ********
Bobby ********
Brandon Thurkettle. Yes. A one-off wouldn't hurt, but you're correct. You are "contracted" to the agent for ever after, until you leave the country and initiate your own "Great Reset"
Graham ********
Graham ********
Not a bad idea but where can you make 10%. Plus they do the 90 day report 4 times a year.
Ray *****
Ray *****
@Graham *******
90 day reports are done for you by most good agents
Frédéric ******************
Frédéric ******************
With the new era of QR codes beginning, I wouldn't dare to use that kind of agents.
Ross ********
Ross ********
Well it is a dodgy visa and if they ever have a reason to look into it you will wish you just kept the 800k....what is the likelyhood of that? No idea but it has happened
Stuart *********
Stuart *********
Technically the agent approach is a very grey area legally. Yes many people go down that route, but there have been some stories of people having real issues down the line. Possibly won’t happen to you, but I’m not sure I’d want to take the risk that I’m the 0.01% it happens to. (Made up percentage, just for effect).
Maxim ***********
Maxim ***********
@Stuart ********
The people who have had issue have been using bad agent. Good agent work with immigration officer, everyone get their cut, and the stamps and everything are real. Agent can also do your 90 days report for a small fee. The only mistake you are making is confusing legality with legitimacy. Something can be illegal but legit. For example, black market of lotto ticket in Thailand is illegal, but if you win, you get paid fully. Its illegal but not enforced, just like the use of agent. So there is no gray area, its illegal, but not enforced, and the process is legit..

p.s:
@Ross *******
is not speaking from experience, hes fear mongering. He has zero clue what hes talking about.
Stuart *********
Stuart *********
@Maxim **********
except that the agents don’t list on their website or business cards that they are a “bad agent” and the buyer should be aware. The people that have been deported and blacklisted from Thailand found out the hard way. Rarely happens but it can.
Maxim ***********
Maxim ***********
@Stuart ********
Well, its their responsibility to find a reputable agent. For example, if your agent is not sending you the 90 days report slip confirmation after doing the report for you, red flag. If the agent is giving you options that other agents cant do, red flag. If price is too cheap, red flag. If your agent dont have an office listed on google that you can easily visit, red flag.
Daniel *********
Daniel *********
@Stuart ********
87% of all statistics are made up. 😊
Bobby ********
Bobby ********
Daniel Covrett. 10% of road deaths are caused by alcohol. Which means 90% are caused by inconsiderate assholes drinking water, tea and coffee. Drink beer and save lives!!!
Todd *********
Todd *********
@Stuart ********
admittedly I find it challenging to see how a legit immigration stamp in your passport is ‘legally Grey’. It’s legally crystal clear. It’s a legitimate extension stamp. As long as Thai immigration continues to stamp them, and the many large agencies continue to facilitate them, it’s bound to continue.
Bobby ********
Bobby ********
Todd McGowan. How immigration get you is by requesting to see your bank book. That's why they stipulate the 800k for two months before, three months after, and 400k the rest of the time. This was brought in specifically to undermine agents if immigration choose to do so (which is rare). There's no court case. It's arrest on overstay (not because of the stamp in your passport, but because you failed to maintain the required funds). Following arrest it's IDC, pay up 20,000 overstay, deportation and ban. I do have first hand experience with a relative. I can see the nonsense of keeping 800k tied in a bank account, which is why I go the 65k per month method. I use 40-50k a month anyway (I like to "live" in Thailand, not "exist" on cheese toasties from 7-11!), so the surplus 15-25k I switch into a higher interest account, let it build up and splash out once a year on an overseas trip. That is best use of my money, and I sleep easy at night knowing I'm perfectly legal. All
@Stuart ********
is doing is giving correct advice. "Yes it works with agents, but........". It's sound advice.
Todd *********
Todd *********
@Bobby *******
I agree, he is giving very good advice. Unfortunately, it’s not applicable to all situations.

My own level of concern for the possibility of arrest, detainment and deportation is astoundingly low. And I can totally appreciate this is their legal right. It simply is only used in the most extreme of circumstances. There are simply more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

Like you, I think the monthly 65k application is definitely the way to go. And it’s quite a low threshold still. The 800k is a bit more for people who don’t understand the value of their own money.
Stuart *********
Stuart *********
@Todd ********
The immigration officer who stamps the extension has taken money for doing so. That is illegal. If investigated it may be deemed that any extensions they have approved are “null and void”.

I understand what you’re saying that it’s a legit extension and many agencies use this route, but that’s where I state it’s a very grey area legally.

Almost no one has an issue with their extensions going down this route. But in the past some have.
Todd *********
Todd *********
@Stu***
it’s definitely not a matter of meeting the (very low)!financial requirements for most. As the poster here is proposing, it’s simply prudent financially in many cases. $800k at even just 6% produces $48k in annual interest. Agents charge about $14k for a retirement extension. And you still have $34k left in the bank to cover the beer tab.
Stuart *********
Stuart *********
@Todd ********
I 100% agree. There’s many people who want to stay in Thailand for whatever reason and can’t meet the financial requirements to do so. Agents provide a way of doing so. It’s just not a path I would choose to do.
Todd *********
Todd *********
@Stu***
fair point. And you guys do great advisory work there to help people get the right visa.

I just don’t see these going away anytime soon. They certainly offer a level of ease and convenience that will attract many
Stuart *********
Stuart *********
@Todd ********
I tried to infer the grey area in my original comment. I would certainly not like being in a court case where legitimacy is being decided.
Todd *********
Todd *********
@Stu***
I understand. And the challenge for any court is proving the illegality of anything that has enjoyed such widespread use for such a long period of time.

I would guess that if arrests ever made, and eventually charges laid and it makes it to courts, a judge could rule ‘null and void’. But there would be plenty of lead in time for the thousands affected make alternative arrangements.
Dror *********
Dror *********
ur comment is a fraud. stop puking utter nonsense from your mouth
Ross ********
Ross ********
@Dror ********
😂😂😂. If the IO stamps you in for 90 days when you arrive instead of the 30 days they should have.....what happens when you show up at the airport on the 89th day to depart? You have a 100% legitimate stamp right?
Dror *********
Dror *********
@Ross *******
as i said do keep with the fearmongering and being afraid of your own shadow. those of us who are realistic will keep using what we using. cheers
Dror *********
Dror *********
@Ross *******
lol comparing oranges with tomatoes.
Ross ********
Ross ********
@Dror ********
it is a fraud....the requirements states you must have 800k of your money in the bank....if an agent either puts it in for you or just has the IO sign off on what would you call that moron?
Todd *********
Todd *********
@John ********
accurate assessment. The supposedly ‘developed’ countries have simply normalized a system that molests the wallets of its citizens. They call this first world 😂
Todd *********
Todd *********
@Ross *******
I would call that real life. Is this your first time in a new country?
John ******
John ******
@Ross *******
In developing nations like Thailand, Mexico, Ecuador et al.... you have 2 avenues that will allow you to get what you want. One avenue is following all the rules and doing exactly as you are told. The second avenue is paying a facilitator that pays all the officials up the chain directly and then in turn they give you want.

In the USA they are called lobbyists. Here in Mexico they are called corrupt people in charge of bureaucracy. Take your pick.
Dror *********
Dror *********
@Ross *******
but please stay in the "afraid of the shadow of himself" squad. all of you people here talking about people being deported for using agents and what not lolz
Dror *********
Dror *********
@Ross *******
that doesn't change the fact that the stamp you get is 100% real and stamped by a 100% legit immigration officer. hence not a fraud/fake
Stuart *********
Stuart *********
@Dror ********
in what way is it utter nonsense? I emphasised the percentage was a made up one.
Dror *********
Dror *********
@Stuart ********
that ross guy said its fraudulent which it isn't. it is indeed grey area but i would not call it fraud/fake
Stuart *********
Stuart *********
@Dror ********
as I mentioned it’s a very grey area legally. Technically it’s a real extension, stamped by a real immigration officer, but almost certainly not in the province in which you reside. Quite possibly if looked into it may be deemed invalid and you’d be on overstay from the date of the application. It has happened in the past. Rare but it could.
Dror *********
Dror *********
@Stuart ********
sorry i was reffering to ross dobson comment saying it is fraud
Ross ********
Ross ********
@Stuart ********
It isn't grey at all....it is fraud
Niklas ***********
Niklas ***********
@Stuart ********
I think in exactly the same way as you

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