Unanswered3 years ago
What are my options after being told my Thai visa was automatically canceled due to removing myself from payroll?
Hi, i got a company in Bangkok and 3 monthes ago i remove myself from the payroll as the company is going to close soon. My accountant insure me that it was not a problem asI have a working permit expiring on 1st of july and my visa is expiring on 31 of October 2023.
As i want to do a retirement visa and my working permit is expiring soon i went to the Ministry of Labour to cancel my working permit first then my visa as it should be the way.
When i arrive to the ministry of Labour they told me to first cancel my visa so i went to the immigration to cancel my visa but they told me that as i remove myself from the payroll 3 monthes ago my visa was automatically cancelled and they told me they are going to blacklist me and that i cannot go back to Thailand. However during theses past monthes i ve travelled outside the country and back many times and i never had any problem at the airport immigration.
After discussing with my accountant they told me that i need to leave the country today or i will be blacklisted. Then when i come back to Thailand ask to the immigration to “not stamp on the re-entry” if i want to make a retirement visa. Then go back to the immigration and cancel my previous visa then pay a fine of 20 000 for overstay.
So now i’m outside Thailand without having cancelled my working permit which expires on 1 st of july and my non B visa not cancelled as well
Any possible way to arrange this situation without going through the fine? Did they tried to to scam me with this overstay? As i could leave and back many times during theses past monthes?
As i want to do a retirement visa and my working permit is expiring soon i went to the Ministry of Labour to cancel my working permit first then my visa as it should be the way.
When i arrive to the ministry of Labour they told me to first cancel my visa so i went to the immigration to cancel my visa but they told me that as i remove myself from the payroll 3 monthes ago my visa was automatically cancelled and they told me they are going to blacklist me and that i cannot go back to Thailand. However during theses past monthes i ve travelled outside the country and back many times and i never had any problem at the airport immigration.
After discussing with my accountant they told me that i need to leave the country today or i will be blacklisted. Then when i come back to Thailand ask to the immigration to “not stamp on the re-entry” if i want to make a retirement visa. Then go back to the immigration and cancel my previous visa then pay a fine of 20 000 for overstay.
So now i’m outside Thailand without having cancelled my working permit which expires on 1 st of july and my non B visa not cancelled as well
Any possible way to arrange this situation without going through the fine? Did they tried to to scam me with this overstay? As i could leave and back many times during theses past monthes?
Summary so far
The user, a company owner in Bangkok, is facing complications regarding their visa and work permit after voluntarily removing themselves from the payroll three months prior to their work permit's expiry. They were informed that this action led to an automatic cancellation of their visa, which has prompted concerns about being blacklisted. The user has traveled in and out of Thailand during this period without issue but was advised to leave the country immediately to avoid fines and seek a retirement visa instead. The community provided various responses about the implications of overstaying, potential fines, and the consequences of informing immigration about their status. Confusion persists regarding the legitimacy of their visa and work permit situation, raising the question of whether they can rectify this without facing fines.
53 repliesnewest first
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Brian *******
I remember being told by a language school that if we wanted to come back and study all over again after completing the course, that we need to get a new passport, without any stamps, and start the process over again. I never took this advice, but perhaps recieving a new passport without any of your old stamps might get you through the system.
It just depends on how much information is really in "the system".
It just depends on how much information is really in "the system".
Kool *******
@Brian ******
as soon as they take your picture, and fingerprints, they have your full history of entering, leaving, and staying in Thailand at their fingertips. Having a new passport doesn't hide anything from immigration. 20 years ago it did, but not anymore.
Regen ********
@Brian ******
nope, doesn’t work since the fingerprints
Hector *********
Jeezus what a pain they make for you 😮💨
Kǎisǎ **********
No one is trying to scam me... Repeat this every day 100 times.
John *******
When you informed immigration of you intention to let work permit expire and cancellation of visa what did you expect from that day you are on overstay now you will receive what is rightfully yours the punishment if you play silly games you win silly prizes
Thierry ********
OP@John ******
always funny to see people like you on a group losing time with such comments👍🏻John *******
@Thierry *******
its raining in phuket today dont have to do and shall I remind you losing time well the clock stops for nobody your welcome anytime 🤣🤣🤣
Kerry ***********
@Thierry *******
Oh he's top of something alright but I wouldn't say it's contributor!!Thierry ********
OP@John ******
very helpful again Jonh! Thanks! Glad there’s top contributor like you on this group!Ni**
So you own the company? Why removing yourself from payroll would cancel the business visa?
Maybe immigration misunderstood that you were working for some other company
Maybe immigration misunderstood that you were working for some other company
Thierry ********
OP@Ni**
because we are closing the company nowBrandon ************
@Ni**
because he was no longer an "employee" after removed from payroll.Christo *****************
@Brandon ***********
if you are a active directorNi**
@Brandon ***********
So why thai goverment website claims otherwise (linked upper)?I understand you are very educated about visas. But lets be clear here. Establishing and running business is not thing that most of expats/ed-visa tourists tend to do, as it comes with costs and responsibilities. So you won't find a lot of discussion of these visas here.
Brandon ************
@Ni**
simply owning a business does not confer any rights to stay in Thailand unless it's a special BOI company.There's a reason so many people start "fake" companies and pay social security taxes on 4 employees that don't even work there so they can get a visa for themselves. It's because you can get 1 foreigner employee visa per 4 Thai employees. Just owning a company means nothing
Ni**
@Brandon ***********
You get the extension for being thai business owner, not director.Term director seems to be a bit confusing term here for some. You can hire some bar girl for being director 50baht an hour and still you own the company.
Brandon ************
@Ni**
because the options are being an employee, or being brought to Thailand for a few meetings and such. You're not going to get a 1 year extension for being a director.Ni**
@Brandon ***********
Can you elaborate why? I already provide 2 links for you, why he would be eligible.Brandon ************
@Ni**
he's not thoughNi**
@Christo ****************
You are also trying route this conversation totally different way, which does not contribute the conversation nor help OP. What i'm trying to say is even if OP is not in the companys payroll anymore, he still be eligible to keep is business visa.Christo *****************
@Brandon ***********
then u still need a work permitNi**
@Brandon ***********
Do you actually have to be employee for business visa? Not all business owners work for company. WP require it for sure, but maybe worth to explore is owning the company just enought for business visa.Ni**
@Christo ****************
as major shareholder you will be in charge of the company, wether you are director or not. Many falang also use nominee directors on Thailand.Thierry ********
OP@Christo ****************
you can be director of a company without wirking in the company, even living outside ThailandChristo *****************
Foreign owners normally like to be in charge of running the company also… not just own it
Ni**
@Christo ****************
you don't need to be director if you own the companyChristo *****************
@Ni**
as a director you need to have a workpermit to!Ni**
@Brandon ***********
You can get the business visa if you own the company, employment or WP is not required.**************************************************
*******************************************************************
"Foreigners who wish to setup or conduct business in Thailand should apply for a Thai Non-Immigrant B visa."
Brandon ************
@Ni**
I've never heard of a visa for owning a company.Ni**
@Thierry *******
Correct, thats why I wonder why they say your business visa won't be valid.Thierry ********
OP@Ni**
you can be a director without working in the companyThierry ********
OP@Ni**
i own the company they clearly understand it
Ryan ********
The lesson for other people is to not tell them you aren't working no more? Seems like they wouldn't know if you kept quiet.
Brandon ************
@Ryan *******
if you never plan to return to Thailand and get a long term visa or extension that will actually work. But the next time you apply for a long term extension they will tell you that you never cancelled your work extension and that you have to go so before you can get a new one. At that time they will discover it because you'll need all the paperwork to cancel it.Kool *******
As soon as you went to immigration you made them aware of your situation, and everything is now entered into the system. Immigration is not trying to scam you. There is nothing you can do to avoid the bt20,000 fine when you try to leave the country, and as the overstay is more than 90 days you will also be banned from returning for at least one year. If you are caught on overstay before you are on your way to, or at the airport, or border, you will be arrested, detained in immigration holding cell/jail u til you can pay the fine and pay for your deportation flight out of the country, and then banned from returning for at least 5 years. You need to leave the country immediately, pay the bt20,000 fine, and be banned for one year. You have no options. Going over 90 days overstay you just made it a serious situation, and are very lucky immigration didn't arrest you on the spot. If you do not leave very soon immigration will be looking for you to arrest, as overstays are a priority now for them. It doesn't matter what you do, there is no way of avoiding it. Immigration doesn't accept excuses of "I didn't know". You signed a statement verifying that you did know.
Thierry ********
OP@Kool ******
apparently the problem comes from my removal from the payroll of my company 3 monthes ago they said that it cancelled the visa BUT during theses past three monthes “overstay” i did not had any problem with the Thai customs travelling and backKool *******
@Thierry *******
you didn't have problems because immigration didn't know you quit until you told them. Taking your name off the payroll is the same as quitting, and normally the business doesn't inform immigration. They simply quit paying Thai social security on you. The accountant is just that, an accountant, and has no interaction with immigration at all, except to proving the company documents immigration needs for your visa extension, when asked. They don't initiate anything dealing with immigration. They are licensed accountants, not immigration agents. Larger businesses, like the one my wife is the licensed accountant for, just hires a legitimate immigration agents to take care of those details. If not, then it is your responsibility. As soon as you made immigration aware of the situation, it was documented in the system. Before that they were not aware. It is really that simple.
Sam ********
@Thierry *******
it’s very common to get many different answers here from government places. I don’t have any actual solution for you but be aware that it’s going to be a problem when you re-enter thailand to Ask the officer NOT to stamp your re-entry. Have you thought about how your going to explain that to them as it’s mandatory for the 90 day reporting. That advice you were given seems wrong and basically goes against immigrations policy. For you to circumvent that re-entry stamp you will need to disclose the whole chain of events to them, thus exposing you to blacklist and deportation. So if you have been fortunate enough to have come in a few times without a problem, that might all change once you have to explain why you don’t want a re-entry stamp. Just keep that in mind.
Thierry ********
OPAfter having ask around to agencies the recommendation of the immigration officer in Chaengwattana who told me to ask to not stamp on the re - entry is not giod one. They told me it s not possible to ask this and will lead to more problems or simply another stamp on the re entry which will continue my “overstay”
Andy ********
@Thierry *******
please do keep us informed. It is definitely a new one to me.Thierry ********
OP@Sam *******
to be continued 😅Thierry ********
OP@Kool ******
i have already left the country without a fine as my non b is on the passport to be expired on 31 of october. The immigration didn’t enter anything in the system. They recommend me to leave on that day to avoid beeing blacklisted and when re enter Thailand ask to the immigration officer to NOT stamp on re- entry. Then if i stay with tourist visa there s no fine but if i want to do a retirement visa i need to cancel my non b and pay a max fine of *****
…
Douglas *************
I have a friend in a similar situation. They told him that when he comes back he will need to pay a 20,000 baht fine.
Regen ********
I would change the accountant
Albert *******
@Regen *******
my sentiments exactly . He needs to listen to lawyers or visa agentsBrandon ************
@Regen *******
accounting is a restricted profession in Thailand which means only Thais can do it. Thais know literally nothing about immigration and visa matters. As far as accounting goes they gave advice in their area of specialty that what op wanted to do was fine and it was fine for the books. I agree that both op and the accountant should have done better due diligence but I certainly wouldn't blame the accountant. They're just as culpable as the op.
Henrik ****
@Brandon ***********
, just not to confuse ppl. doing business in Thailand and knowing about accounting: Thailand does not distinguish that clearly between accounting and auditing as most Western countries do, but my international auditing firm with a branch office in Thailand made it very clear that anyone is allowed to do accounting but only Thais allowed to do auditing, incl. signing any papers related to accounting/auditing services or set up a limited offering any of those services. It is a little important due to the price if you were not allowed to do the accounting yourself or ask some low-paid Thai to do it.Thierry ********
OP@Brandon ***********
i just blame myself to not dig more about the matter. That sais there s a lot of accountants who do visas
Michael ********
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Thierry ********
OP@Michael *******
thanksBrandon ************
You signed a piece of paper when you applied for your extension. It said you would notify immigration if anything changed about your status.
Then you removed yourself from payroll which means you're no longer an employee. The moment you did that your extension was void as the reason for it was no longer true. You failed to notify immigration of this change as you agreed and you went on overstay.
Then you removed yourself from payroll which means you're no longer an employee. The moment you did that your extension was void as the reason for it was no longer true. You failed to notify immigration of this change as you agreed and you went on overstay.
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