Can you apply for the DTV visa multiple times throughout your life?

@John ****

DTV only exists about 100 days, what stuff did you eat?

@Luit ****************

you're kidding right? 👉😂

@Roberto ********

For me now it is perfect, I am not retired yet,an I can work remotely. This might change qhen I retire.

@Greg *******

Agree that pr is very limited upside but it's part of the path to citizenship for unmarried folks.

Sadly the LTR is not a route even when paying income tax.

@Sefton *******

Many of my colleagues in Singapore were incredulous that a few of us would not go for PR. It was pretty much guaranteed in our industry (Pharma) you would get it after a minimum qualifying period. This was 20 years ago - within a few years it was very difficult to get unless you were Chinese heritage. At the BOI company were were at the foreigners were on the flat 15% tax - people were worried PR would effect that :-)

@Greg *******

if I worked here I would be doing it. I know it doesn't give much, but it's an investment in long long stay.

But the vague processes, the way years may go by without any processing and the way some get fast tracked with no oversight or system that you can be sure of timelines etc is just off putting.

@Sefton *******

Exactly - at least i Singapore there was a process to follow and you had some indication. In Singapore it was nearly always our colleagues with "Weaker" passports applied for PR. Then certain nationals were using it as a bridge to other countries like USA in the main or UK to a lesser extent Singapore cracked down. A good pal of mine could not get it in Singapore after 10 years in a priority segment as a senior manager. He got a UK Visa easily and is on his way to settlement. In fact I know two guys very well in this situation.

@Greg *******

You get the schedule from the doctor/hospital outlining the treatment plan. You then delay the treatment. Reschedule. I think that's how it works. Some guy in another group got a 5 year visa for dental treatment!

@Andy ***********

We know the initial DTV is easily available with medical appointments. what happens if Immigration want to see ongoing requirements and/or improvement. Remember the ED Visa and what happened there.

@Greg *******

Exactly! Which is why I urge people to avoid immigration. Even with non-O extensions, immigration tends to make life difficult no matter what. Even my last extension, all my paperwork was in order, everything was fine, but oh no, still something else. For the first time in years, they wanted TWO photocopies of my passport ID page. So said the lady with a photocopy machine sitting right behind her. I'm sure at times they are just being bloody-minded and difficult. So it's little wonder I'm looking for a way to avoid the immigration office. With a multi-entry re-entry permit, my time at airport immigration can be counted in seconds. Never a problem. And I agree, immigration offices will no doubt bring in all kinds of ridiculous requirements for extensions, so best to avoid at all costs

@Andy ***********

Benjamin Hart from Integrity Legal believes that in country extensions aren't possible with this visa.

We've all heard that we can supposedly receive one 6-month extension on each entry.

My hunch is that what they'll actually do is - allow only a 30 day extension with minimal paperwork OR they may honor the 6-month extension but require a work contract + proof of 500K for the last 30-60 days.

@Paul ******

Wouldn't surprise me at all. I know what tw*ts they can be at immigration with their blinkered approach and obsession with making life difficult for foreigners. I'm happy I won't have to deal with them for five years

@Greg *******

Agreed there's no official figures, but going by these forums you have to admit there's been an avalanche of applications to embassies all over the world. Posts about DTV across these forums has been very high, dwarfing most other visa queries. I know these forums represent only a small percentage of visa applications, but even you'd know market research is carried out with samples of the population. The thing that does amuse me with the DTV is that it's one of the easiest visas to obtain. The number of retirees I personally know who have switched from non-O to DTV is now 15, ranging from remote working (and you would laugh yourself silly if you knew some of these guys, who haven't worked for years, let alone remotely), a dental treatment plan, a fictitious "hip replacement" and so on. Even with the easy process, these forums are filled with notes of "congratulations" to those who have been "successful". Some people find it more time and labour consuming to extend a 12-month non-O than to obtain a brand spanking new 5-year DTV. The whole thing is quite funny. It was designed to get foreigners into the country to put money into the economy and it's working. Too many government officials and high-ranking police have investment condos sitting empty but now slowly filling due to the waves of DTV'ers entering the country no longer scared to sign a 12-month lease. They're not official figures, but it's a pretty good yardstick. In my condo building alone I've several new neighbours all on the DTV. It's the biggest upsurge in new arrivals since covid.

@Andy ***********

I actually do not know any retirees who have switched. I am thinking about it myself but only if I am actually going to do work in Thailand. It offers no advantages to me otherwise. I do not think DTB will have any effect on the property market except at the low end. You think those retirees switching are going to suddenly move upmarket in their accommodation?

@Greg *******

There's a lot more than you probably realise. I'm on non-O and I'm definitely switching next year when my current extension expires. I know of two other retirees who have already done it. It seems a very straightforward process and it gets rid of that seriously over-regulated and bureaucratic criteria for "retirement"

@Greg *******

Classic example of where words are manipulated. Nowhere did I say retirees would move upmarket in accommodation. This is your rigid approach to the DTV which is making you think this way. My landlord is letting to long-term foreigners and digital nomads (groups who previously had to rely on perpetual border bouncing to stay in the country can now confidently sign 12-month leases. You are probably from a younger age group, but the crusty old farts I hang around with are all 65+. Many view the DTV as a way out of the agent scam of paying /30 k each year for a dodgy extension. To register a company name in Australia is cheap and easy, and work contract templates are available on the web. As nothing has to be signed, countersigned, notarised, stamped or verified, the DTV represents the biggest game changer in Thailand visa history. It's just so easy to obtain. It works brilliantly for those who travel frequently with so many advantages. Cheaper over five years than non-O. Zero visits to immigration required. Opportunity to avoid the "expat income tax" net. Flexibility in travel insurance not having to be in the country at a specific time to apply for extension (as the non-O requires). No minimum funds requirement in Thailand (800k or 65k/month). Any retiree who cannot see these obvious advantages needs to "go to Specsavers" 😂.

@Andy ***********

Work contracts certainly need to be signed and preferably stamped as well. Some consulates require certain documents to be notarized too, which is not a difficult process. I got my translated documents notarized.

@Andy ***********

Anecdotes do not make data. Come back when you have some. As for agent scam ie they cannot find the 800k says a hell of a lot. Just by that measure alone they are not exactly adding much to the Thai economy.

Quality tourists. I bet they all drink in the cheap Charlie bars around Onnut too. The demographic is all too recognisable :-)

@Greg *******

The guys I hang out with are predominantly Australian, so I guess you don't know how Australian Superannuation works. Many Australians amass large sums of superannuation savings through their lifetime, often amounting to $500k to $800k. On reaching 60 all withdrawals and defined pensions are paid totally tax free. Consider most super funds pay between 8 and 11% per annum tax free. Now work out how much interest people would lose by withdrawing 800,000 baht equivalent. Even at the lower end that's 64,000 baht per annum LOST. These guys are far from cheap Charlies. It seems you love to throw out the insults if people see things a different way. Yes I can only comment on a small demographic, but that small sector has gone 100% in favour of the DTV. And my Thai landlord is very happy with it (and I'm guessing he's not the only one!)

@Andy ***********

I would be careful what you post in public. Admitting using agents to get dodgy retirement visas. Now using dodgy hip replacement appointments or dodgy company documents for the DTV. Just what the DTV was instigated for.

@Greg *******

I don't use either of those "services" so I don't have to be careful at all. It's pretty common knowledge that there's a plethora of agents out there paying bribes to immigration officials to avoid the 800k requirement!! If someone has a schedule from a Thai hospital for a hip replacement what's dodgy about that? If the person ultimately decides to reschedule further down the track or to cancel altogether isn't that their prerogative? And I don't think I mentioned any dodgy company documents anywhere! I think you're overthinking my comments too much!

@Andy ***********

"To register a company name in Australia is cheap and easy, and work contract templates are available on the web. As nothing has to be signed, countersigned, notarised, stamped or verified" To quote you

@Tim ****************

Not just digital nomads, but retirees, dental appointments, cooking classes - you name it, people have got it! I'm just as curious to know who in the government has told you it won't be around in five years! 😂

@Andy ***********

mine was just an opinion. You stated a definitive. That said, economists predict it won’t prove as good for Thailand (don’t need to be an economist to see that tbf) - it’s already been stated it wouldn’t have gone through with the current leadership.

@Tim ****************

I stated a definitive based on my own observations. The DTV is selling like the proverbial hot cakes. Within my own social circle, over half those people are on DTV. I know that's not representative of the whole country but it's pretty good market sampling. The landlord (Thai) I rent my condo from has eight such rental properties in the "Sukhumvit Area" from Thong Lor to Bang Na, many of which have been sitting empty since covid. In the last six months, he's filled all the empty condos with DTV'ers. He reckons it's the greatest government initiative to help Thai investors in history. Seeing as government officials and high ranking police are big condo investors I really cannot see the DTV fading into obscurity. But only time will tell. You believe the government will kill the goose which lays the golden egg, I beg to differ, but we'll see!

@Andy ***********

ah ok, I respect your opinion - just sounded like you'd been told it was a lock. Always good to have two sides. That's a very small sample though - a couple of landlords and your friends. I run a community of into the thousands here and can concur that it is good for more than just dn's. However, Bangkok is a bubble as is a small community of people within that bubble.

Don't want to second guess your economics credentials, but take one of those other groups - retirees. Immediately, the Thai economy lose (assuming a very conservative 2% compounding for the 5 years of the DTV, plus the govt will take tax from that) 60,000baht for every one who switches to the DTV - that 800,000THB that sits there makes money for banks and the government. Additionally, the thousands spending 100,000k-plus on business visas to work in the grey area here (there are plenty - a friend has an agency who does this and they are having to pivot or close) can now spend 10k every 5 years instead.

Yes, it will attract some new people who will spend some money but the economy is is negative equity from most of them from day one - though most of the DTVs so far have been people here already or coming here anyway. As a couple of people have said, it is too early to say it's been a roaring success.

We spoke to the representative from TAT at the launch event and questioned why they have priced it so low for so long when "competing" countries - 80% of people will choose Thailand over Ph, Vn, Mal, Bali if the visa playing field was level btw - and they didn't really have an answer other than it is a reaction to tourism numbers being down. It was rushed, and there was a new PM within a month whose messaging was not in total support let's say.

Golden ticket for the Thai economy it is unlikely to be. I have changed my tune a little on it's effect on the culture though, which I was initially worried about. They did/do have an excellent opportunity to take the Majorca and Ibiza route and target the high end - people coming for 2-3 weeks spending 10k+ a day instead of the expats and dn's who largely spend the same over 4 months - as Thailand has far more to offer than them. They had started that tbf, with the previous PM investing a lot into Phuket to push the target clientele that way.

As you say, we'll see. Sounds like you've been here a while so are familiar with fickle nature of immigration and Thai politics (though admittedly also the slow wheels behind it) so I don't think either outcome will be a surprise to either of us. Fun discussion though!

@Tim ****************

Yes I agree I should reword my sentiments to make sure people understand it's merely my viewpoint. However, there's nothing will convince me that the DTV is not here to stay. In time we will see how it's added to the economy by flooding Thailand with foreigners, all of whom are spending money. In a bad dream, Thailand believed by creating Elite and LTR it would encourage the "wealthy" to come here and spend money. They didn't really work, so they went the other way and opened the doors to everyone. Now it seems to be working. And sure there will be a lot of cheap Charlies in there living on toasted sandwiches and 7-11 coffee, but there's also going to be a lot of mid-rangers pumping money into the economy. You also have to remember there's an estimated more than 50% of retirees who skip the 800k by using an agent to bribe a government official, so that missing 800k isn't making much for the government. The DTV can eliminate that scam. I know of two people who have already switched to DTV and sacked their agents. So they're already k better off per year. I'm guessing (and it's just my opinion) many thousands more will follow. If (and it's a big if) the tax office start going after retirees, the DTV offers an excellent vehicle to avoid taxation. You have to remember that retirees aren't making money as such anymore so they're more careful with their existing savings. DTV offers retirees immense advantages. Many haven't seen it yet, but they will

@Andy ***********

as you say, plenty of agents will go out of business too (that 800k makes money for the economy one way or another) - the ones I know who own agencies are losing business and one or two now likely going unemployed. They can’t make anything from the DTV. That is definitely not good for the economy.

Not disputing at all it’s a great deal for foreigners, but as with the hash it’s not bringing 10s of thousands more people - mostly the same people already here or coming here. That’s the data right now. Not new people, the numbers are the same. It’s early though so neither of us can rely on that data either way.

Good for foreigners? Absolutely. No evidence or economists yet (yes I’ve studied it and read what they say, not what randoms on the web are guessing or hearing in discussions with a dozen people) saying it’s materially good for the economy.

Happy to be be proved wrong as I’d love to see my Thai friends benefit from it. As w’ve both said, time will tell. There will be ways it adds to the economy and ways it doesn’t. Most of what we spend doesn’t go to the government so they’ll soon miss that, but projections suggest the scales won’t tip in Thailands favor.

@Tim ****************

If the 800k Agents are suffering then so are Immigration. This is a very nice little earner for many Immigration Offices. As they say, "Never break a mans rice bowl". Good point about extra numbers. Yes, there will be some new people and many already here on visa runs or Ed etc will find it easier to stay longer. As for retirees switching switching - I do not know anyone doing it. Then again anecdotes do not make data but they do make cognitive bias for some :-)

@Greg *******

I’m close to retirement visa age and I’ll do this rather than an OA. I know 2 who are switching, but tbf my audience and community is mostly younger than that so not enough to gauge really. I’ve been through borders here probably nearing 100 times now and not once paid an officer. Paid more to the traffic cops!

And yes, a lot of people form their opinion from social media! I’m a data guy, so that’s where I look. Early days to form much useful info yet, but as I’ve been saying look into what economic projections say and it’s not long term stayers that will spur on the economy.

The irony is that Thailand rarely thinks long term but a load of people moving onto the DTV will make it a lot easier to clean up the mess of visas in play now and start again! If they think that far ahead anyway.

@Tim ****************

I was in Clinical Research for well over a decade then ran projects and large PMO's - I am very much a data guy 🙂 Unless I want to do some remote work in Thailand I cannot see advantages of going from "O" to DTV. The Smart "S" Startup is attractive too for the tax advantages. Dealing with BOI is much easier than any other department I have had dealings with here - they actually encourage business. Then again that is their role :-)

@Greg *******

I’m not getting the DTV until it beds in, if at all, as I’m happy with my situation. Thailand need more on business visas to stimulate the economy and encourage them to do business here, not get them to take the DTV and move or stay online.

That, and higher end tourism, will be what stimulates the economy more than the DTV can.

@Tim ****************

Agree on the Business side. They could make the visa and ownership of companies easier. They could limit it to or totally exclude certain sectors like entertainment and tourism but allow easier set up for digital, IT, AI etc.

@Andy ***********

"DTV offers retirees immense advantages. Many haven't seen it yet, but they will" You think immigration will not notice a shift change (I doubt it will be a shift change - you are talking about your tiny demographic) but let's say there was. What do you think the reaction from immigration will be - remember they do not issue the DTV but they control re-entry and extensions.

@Greg *******

I don't know if immigration will have much say in the DTV. I do know that historically immigration try to make life very difficult for expats, but generally border control is a little different. It's easy for them to just stamp another 180 days. It's my intention to never apply for an extension.

@Andy ***********

Cost of a same day border bounce doubled when Visa Exempt went from 30 to 60 days. I am sure immigration will have their eyes on their rice bowl with the DTV.

@Greg *******

The DTV suits retirees who travel regularly. There's no land border bounces required. It's all done by air when travelling. Retirees who wish to just remain in Thailand wouldn't be suited to a DTV.

@Andy ***********

Land border bounces are far easier than air based ones. If you're living in Isarn for example, it's probably much quicker and easier to drive to Laos or Cambodia (if in southern Isarn) than getting to Bangkok in order to fly out of the country (seeing that Thailand has effectively only one city where the bulk of international flights arrive into and depart from, that being Bangkok), with only a very limited number of international flights departing Chiang Mai and Phuket and very, very few from anywhere else.

@Paul ******

Yes but I'm talking about frequent travellers. I'm in and out of Thailand three or four times a year, flying to Australia or Europe. Why on earth would I travel to that barren wilderness called Isaan to bounce at some Godforsaken outpost in the middle of nowhere? People who don't travel much are better off probably with a non-O visa. The DTV isn't one glove which fits all

@Andy ***********

In the group I know (small sample, anecdotal) I do not think I can name one person who has not travelled each year. If the only advantages are saving 25-30k a year in agents fee's that may be critical for some if they do not have 800k at hand. They need 500k for the DTV????

@Greg *******

500k in an Aussie super fund earning 8% tax free beats the hell out of 800k in a Thai bank account earning 0.5% less tax!

@Greg *******

they only need 500k once and some have circumvented even that. I totally agree on the travel thing though. For 5k THB you’d have a great few days in Hoi An, Siem Reap, Da Nang, Penang….

I’m from the UK and no way I wouldn’t have travelled a couple of times a year into Europe so to do similar at a fraction of the cost is a no-brainer. Sure, some retirees aren’t able or willing to and they’ll stick with OA, but for many this isn’t the hurdle.

We’re batting for the same side here though so I’m resting for the day 😂

@Tim ****************

I need to go to Australia a couple of times a year as I have business and family there, and also to ensure I retain Australian Tax Residency so it suits me. Not everyone is in the same position. If I wanted to just sit in Thailand for the rest of my life, the non-O is perfect. I think what you guys are missing is that every retiree is in a different situation. You seem both to be very anti-DTV which is surprising if you're in this group which I understand is to help people attain this visa to make life in Thailand easier for them. Anything I say which is positive you attempt to negate this, to the point where

@Greg *******

is actually throwing out insults. I don't quite understand why you guys are so angry, unless of course you're naturally bad-tempered, there are plenty of farangs in Thailand who most certainly are

@Andy ***********

You think "Flooding" Thailand with foreigners might not have a backlash? FFS Would your Onnut "Bogan" pals with their DTV's appreciate the same for Australia?

@Greg *******

Haha! Foreigners flooding in is already happening in Australia! Bit late for that now! But sentiments for other countries is irrelevant. We're discussing the ease of obtaining the DTV and how it suits retirees. I can see you're losing your temper. I don't actually know anyone in On Nut, so I think you're referring to someone else!

@Stephen *******

You really do not see the difference between elite visa and DTV? Or are you just joking?

@Luit ****************

one is more expensive. The other is less

@Maxim ********

I’m not saying this literally, obviouslg I have no idea just logically I wouldn’t plan your life around it.

@Paulie *******

If immigration come up with stupid extension criteria, just border bounce and get the 180 days that way

@Steve *******

Unless they make the border bounce more difficult, but that requires a lot of change.

@Steve *******

yep that's exactly what I would do but I did not get it to stay full time I'm in and out for buisnees so for next 4 years I doubt I'll be here for a constant 180 days if am HK is always a nice weekend away

@Paulie *******

They will ask you for 1900 baht and give you an extension stamp. There’s no way the entire function and structjre of the immigration department will change for this visa. It is far more likely the visa just goes away.

@Stephen *******

Why should they have to change the entire function and structure of the inmmigration department for checking requirements for extending a stay? They are used to it for the other visa stay extensions.

@Stephen *******

I’m not entirely sure but I think

@Greg *******

knows the answer.

@Stephen *******

you obviously do not know how the thais work lol. Let's see.

@Paulie *******

I know exactly how the Thais work mate. It sounds like you don’t at all. There is no way they will completely restructure the entire immigration department and extension for a multi entry visa, for whatever random reason you’ve come up with in your head. We will go in, get an extension. Done. Might be a headache, but there is no precedence they change visas after the fact. They might cancel it. But it is a 180 day visa with 180 day extension. Period.

The idea they would repeal all the visas and change the conditions is absoluyely ludacris. It is a five year visa with 180 days + 180 day extension. So 360 days. Without any precedent or reason to say they would ‘randomly’ take this back or cancel them when they have never done that, ever, is totally rediculous. You either have an agenda or you have no clue what you are talking about.

@Stephen *******

It indeed is a 5 year visa with 180 days where each stay can be extended. It would not be easy to change that, but for now it is not known which requirements are needed to extend. When you extend a non-o stay, you also have requirements, so why shouldn't there be requirements for DTV like there are also for other extensions? An extension never is a right you have for a visa, it is an option on which immigration has to decide. Non- o stays have also requirements, so the offices are used to check.

We will go to immigration, like all other visas, apply for an extension and pay the fee.

@Paulie *******

People have allready got their extension at immigration office

@Peter *******

no one has extended a permission is stay at 180 days yet, they only started issueing them in july, how can anyone have 180 days incountry ??

This math isnt mathing.

@Peter *******

Are you sure about this? That means after only four months it is already possible to extend?

@Peter *******

Do you know what time frame can you get it in? 1-2 weeks away from expiration or earlie?