What could be the reason for my retirement visa extension denial despite meeting financial requirements, and should I consider switching to a marriage visa instead?

Jul 6, 2019
5 years ago
After bending over backwards I have been denied extension of my retirement visa twice. I work on an income plus capital combination. Over the last twelve months my monthly income (pension from abroad) never dipped below 64,705.28 = annual equivalent of 776,463.36. Capital never dipped below 216,969.63. Put the two together and you have 993,402.99, well in excess of 800,000.

Where am I going wrong? The immigration officer seemed to be saying that capital was not allowed to fall below 400,000. Does this apply to the income option as well as the capital option?

Is it worth challenging this or should I just give up and do a visa run with the prospect of ultimately converting to a marriage visa?
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TLDR : Answer Summary
The user has encountered difficulties in extending their retirement visa in Thailand, despite having the requisite finances—an income that exceeds the limit and capital that also meets the necessary threshold. They question the immigration officer's interpretation of the rules, particularly regarding the requirement for capital not to fall below 400,000 THB. The conversation reveals inconsistencies in how immigration offices apply the rules and discusses other visa options like switching to a marriage visa due to potentially lower financial requirements, as well as considering visa runs or alternative methods to obtain a long-term visa.
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Robert *******
All the options are discussed and discussed. The OP made up a plan and with that I close the commenting. Further discussion about all the options will not bring any new information.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
What I was concerned about was a) whether I should get a re-entry permit before leaving Thailand in case my plan fell down, or would that just confuse immigration at Suvarnabhumi if I returned with a new visa? b) can a single entry non-immigrant visa be converted to a marriage visa and I guess the answer is yes ("Phew").
Robert *******
Go with your last plan. Get the 60 days Extension of Stay in Thailand so you have the time to fly to the UK. Apply there for a new Single Entry Non Immigrant O visa based on married to a Thai National, make sure you can meet all the requirements, than come back into Thailand, get 90 days of stay and after 60 days apply for the Extension of Stay based on being married to a Thai National with the financial requirements of minimum 400.000 Thb 2 months prior application date into a Thai bank account on your name OR 12 months of monthly foreign deposits of minimum 40,000 Thb into a Thai bank in your name.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
OK - thanks for all the replies. Here's my plan. [My retirement extension expires 17 Jul] Comments welcome. a) IO says she can grant me a 60 day extension if I can supply her with more documentation (I will tomorrow) b) this would get over the fact I need to be in the UK 3 Aug to 25 Aug c) while in the UK (far from London) I visit the local consulate and apply for a single entry non-immigrant visa d) I enter Thailand using the new visa which is valid for 90 days e) 30 days before it expires I apply for conversion to marriage visa. Would this work?
James ********
Ian Leonard Hollingworth have you confirmed that Glasgow still does walk in applications?

I looked and it appears they still do.

If that is true...good for you.

And why not get the O-A visa for retirement at Glasgow?

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Oops...The O-A must be done via London

Multiple entry Non Immigrant Visas -

1 year/Multiple entry £150.

This can only be issued through the

Embassy in London either in person or

by post.

Tourist Visa - single entry £30

Tourist Visa - multiple entry £150
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Robert ******
Thanks. The Glasgow consulate accepts personal visits with a turnaround of 2 - 3 days
Robert *******
You have to apply in the UK using the on line system, but it sounds like a good plan.
Jeremy ********
Steve ***********
What is going on, it seems to me that too many people are living on the bread line but expect the right to a visa without the necessary funds......Not meant to offend.
Steve ***********
@Ivan ***********
and your point is?
Ivan ************
Almost 1m THB/year is hardly "living on the breadline". The average salary in Thailand is 14,000/month.

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Jonathan *************
perhaps because you missed the over 65k EVERY month rule? "last twelve months my monthly income (pension from abroad) never dipped below 64,705.28" The trouble with "Sterling"
Jonathan *************
David Broadfoot thanks :(
Joe ***********
If it were me
@Ian **********************
- If at all possible I would find a way to get (in my home country) a 3 + month loan from some source (family, bank, mortgage, etc.) for the equivalent of 800,000 baht in your home country currency. Then put it in the bank (again in your home country)... Then go apply after 3 months at a Thai Consulate for a Non Imm O-A Long Stay Visa one year multi-entry. Then upon issue of the O-A Visa - pay back the loan. You will not be asked to prove your finances for 2 years. By the way - you can easily get two years with this visa without a formal extension. I know people who are doing this..
Tod *********
Unfortunately, unless you possess enough thai language skills to stand there and go toe to toe with them disagreeing with their decision I think you're not gonna get very far with it.

It's certainly not going to help to take your thai wife in to speak for you. I have found that as a general rule is a total fail given the fact that thais have it beaten into their heads since they're small to show respect and give deference to people in uniforms, even low level passport stamping, paper-pushing, wing-nuts who don't know what they're talking about :O

I've found that it's really hard to get a thai to argue with an immigration officer EVEN if one is wrong. Thaiz are just hard wired not to do that. Good Luck, I think you have at least some options.
Jos *********
@Tod ********
then you never met my wife ..... 555
Dave **********
While I have never used my wife at ImmIgration her Father held minor posts, she is a University Graduate, and her first job was in a Government Office. She owns rental property; and a Thsi business targeting Thais and holds her own well in dealing with the Government.
Tod *********
Conversely,
@Ian **********************
, you could just take your marriage certificate, copies of your wife's house book listing, and her thai i/d and go to the thai consulate in Savannakhet Lao to get a year-long, multi-entry Non-O visa for 5000baht. True on that visa you'd have to exit/re-enter the country every 90 days but it'd give you 15 months of trouble free stay in thailand without dealing with your immigration office.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
This is part of my plan - see later post.
Tod *********
@I**
the requirements for an extension based on marriage are

400K baht banked in a thai bank account in your name for 2 months BEFORE you apply for your extension

OR

40K baht a month in income, If you're not working legally here in thailand that would mean you transfer in to the country 40K baht per month EVERY month for the previous 12 months before you apply for your extension of stay.

There is no combination method for marriage extensions.

IF you meet those requirements you could simply change the reason you're getting an extension of stay from retirement to marriage this time at the immigration office. I'd stop in WITH your thai wife and get the hand out of what documents are required to get the yearly extension based on marriage
Tod *********
David Broadfoot, ahh you are correct IF you got an O-A visa from your country before you came here, and then got an extension based on being over 50 after that there are some offices which won't allow you to switch the reason for your next extension.

That is strange though because according to the thai wording to get a yearly extension, one of the requirements is you previously held a Non-Immigrant TYPE visa (it doesn't say what type) and an O-A visa most definitely IS a Non-Immgrant Type visa.
Tod *********
There is NO problem changing the reason for your extension from one based on retirement (like you now have) to one based on marriage.. Usually the immigration office makes you write a short note (in engrish) stating that you want to switch reasons and then as long as you meet the requirements you're fine.

Now keep in mind extensions based on marriage go under consideration for 30 days (meaning you get a 30 day under consideration stamp when you apply) then they can come to your house and make sure you're really living together, and then you go back and get the 11 months left on the extension inked into your passport
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
I know there is a 400,000 baht requirement for the marriage visa, but is there an income alternative? I read somewhere it was 40,000 a month. I can handle that.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
Alexey Shipulin Good to know the income option is not universal.Probably best to at least start with the 400K.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
David Broadfoot I'm out of time. But see my plan posted later.
Alexey **********
David Broadfoot It is possible not everywhere now: in Pattaya ONLY 400'000 in the bank. Even work permit + salary they don't want to consider at all for marriage visa... To change province or to collect money on my account.
Bobby ********
David Broadfoot. That does seem to make sense.
Mike *******
Check what the rules are now. I always thought it didn't matter so long as the combination of income and capital came to 800,000 THB. But, who knows? They seem to change the rules as they go along!
James ********
Mike Moran the problem is the lack of consistency among immigration offices in applying the publishes rules.
David ************
If you are married to a Thai do the extension based on marriage. Significantly lower financial requirements.
James ********
Ian here is the UK list of requirements :

Non-Immigrant Type O- A (Long Stay) 1 Year/Multiple entries

Printout of visa application form submitted online, with bar code

Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages

A medical certificate issued in the UK or Ireland or Thailand, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) which include Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Elephantiasis, drug addiction, third stage of Syphilis, and the certificate shall be valid for not more than three months.

Certificate of criminal record clearance from the UK (ACRO, DBS, or issued by the police) or Ireland

Financial evidence showing monthly income of not less than 65,000 THB (approx. £1,625) or having the current balance of 800,000 THB (approx. £20,000), e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, for at least 1 month

If you wish to be accompanied by spouse, the marriage certificate will be attached. But your spouse will be granted Non-Immigrant “O” instead of “O-A”(Long Stay)

Applicant must be of age 50 years old or over.

Note:

- Please submit the originals of bank statement, criminal record check, and medical record, as well as one photocopy of each document. In case that an applicant could not submit the original documents, the Embassy will accept the photocopies which have been certified by a Notary Public officer or Solicitors.

- The consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary.

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-Non-Immigrant-visas.html#7
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
I live in my wife's house and would not expect her to uproot herself because of this problem.
Michael ********
I would suggest keeping 800K + in a Thai account, don't let your balance go below 800K and there shouldn't be a problem.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Ivan ***********
Good points there. Especially them not allowing averaging (can see their point of view, too much time doing calculations).
Ivan ************
65k in every month is totally legit if you can do that but you have to super careful with it, that you transfer at least that much every month not a baht less, as they don't seem to allow averaging, and that every single transfer must be coded as international (people are having issues with this depending on their bank).

An advantage of the 800k/400k method is you don't have to prove the money came in from abroad.
Ivan ************
@Bo***
400k is "dead money". And it may be "dead" but it's still yours, you still have it and can do what you want with it in an emergency, etc. it's just that you won't get another extension if you did need to take it out. Probably makes sense to have a 400k emergency buffer anyway.
Ramon ***********************
@Michael *******
l have done this for seven years, never a problem
Bobby ********
The 800k becomes "dead money". At least with the 65k per month option, you can in theory withdraw the whole lot the day after it goes in. Provided the 65k goes in each month, immigration doesn't care what happens to it thereafter
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
That's the point Michael I can't afford it
Jeremy ********
Just buy the elite visa and be done with all this nonsense
Jeremy ********
@Ivan ***********
to each their own...it’s still a one time payment as opposed to a yearly requirement
Ivan ************
Yes, and if you can afford that, you can afford to put 800k in a bank account and leave half of it there all year. Elite isn't a solution for people who can't get 800k together in the first place.
Jeremy ********
@Ivan ***********
it’s ฿1mlion for 20 years
Ivan ************
@Jer***
400k you need to leave there to get your extension. It remains yours and you can even get a small amount of interest on it. You can take it with you if you leave Thailand or you change visa type. If you can't afford to leave 400k in the bank, you can't afford 500k every five years or 1m for the Elite visa.
Jeremy ********
@Ivan ***********
it’s a 1 time payment...the retirement money you can never touch again if you want to Reup the visa every year
Ivan ************
@Ra***
it's 500,000 for 5 years or 1,000,000 for 20 years. This is a visa fee, you don't get it back. If you have the money for the Elite, you should have no problem meeting the retirement requirements- the difference there is the money stays yours. If you can't afford to stick 800,000 in a Thai bank, you can't really afford Elite either.
Ramon ***********************
@Jeremy *******
thank you
Jeremy ********
@Ramon **********************
google is your friend always remember that....
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Ramon ***********************
@Jeremy *******
what are the terms and conditions of an elite visa please?
Vladimir ********
@Ian **********************
if you married to Thai then proceed with NON O THAI WIFE, this will cut 50% to 400k. Can use income method.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
Easier said than done - I can't really afford one.
Garry *******
Or keep your money at home and bring just what you need and do what i just did, get a new OA visa from your own country every two years, saves all those immigration interpretations.
Tod *********
@Ian **********************
you can get two years of stay out of that visa IF you use it right BUT you are correct when you go to get a yearly extension you're still going to have to follow the rules OR the interpretation of the rules by your immigration office after that
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Tod ********
This sounds like an option well worth exploring Garry Benge Although on checking it seems that you are still faced with the income hurdle if you wish to extend your OA for a second year - or am I missing something?
Tod *********
good suggestion, I know people on their 5th or 6th O-A visa <- meaning they've been doing just that for the last 10-12 years.
Tod *********
Okay, This is the combination method in engrish and thai
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
I take your point but I think I would need a competent translator to accompany me. There's also the question of getting a letter from the bank telling immigration what they want to hear.
Tod *********
@Ian **********************
Challenge it !!!

The actual interpretation IS that IF you are using the combination method that your banked money cannot be lower than 50% of what ever amount you used.

So in your case IF you were banking 216,969.63, it would need to be at that amount for 2 months before you applied, for 3 months after you got your extension and then the balance couldn't go below
*****
4.57 the rest of the time year.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Tod ********
I think this is exactly what the immigration officer was getting at. And if that is the case I am probably best advised not to try and challenge it.
Tod *********
What is causing the confusion (at least at the immigration office you're using) IS

the last sentence that states banked money has to follow the conditions stated in rule 4

That states that the banked portion of the money must be in the account for 2 months before you apply for your extension, it must stay in the account for 3 months after you apply for the extension and then you must keep at least 50% of the balance in the account for the rest of the year. <- It uses the 800K/400K as an example..
Clare **********
F
Hettie *******
I am now confused..thought you need to have an income of
*****
baht monthly or
*****
0 baht in an account...
Paul **********
@Hettie ******
that's when you single. When you married is 400.000 or a monthly income I believe 40.000 for the misses
Winston *********
As I read the law, you now need to keep 400k baht in a Thái bank, year round and open account with 800k for the first 6 months. No exceptions. Did I miss something? I'm planning to move in December.
Tod *********
There are THREE ways to meet the proof of funds. You are quoting ONE.
Winston *********
@Mary *******
it's one of three. I'm still researching. I just left a couple of weeks ago and, after the trip, it's number 2. And, yes, I'm aware of the baht strength, changing immigration laws, and bad landlord/tenant issues.
Roger *********
I found the marriage visa easy
Al *****************
Technically the 400K limit should not apply to the combination option.
Mikkel *******
@Pierre ********
technically doesn't get you anywhere.. I would say, if he has been refused two times. It would be better to go at another option. He mentioned being married. He could apply for an extension based on marriage in stead and be well above the threshold of 40k a month with the stated transfers.
Mikkel *******
As the new rule from March this year said that the capital (banked money) must never be below 400K it is well within bounds for some immigration offices to interpret that this is a valid requirement even if using the combined method of income/banked money. Some immigration offices do not even accept the combination method at all after the change.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
Depressing but good to know. It does entail some extra brain work on their part which is presumably why the straight 800,000 is their "preferred method."
Gregor **********
the interpretation of the rule by this immigration officer is an absolute disgrace ! It is nowhere in the police order mentioned, that the "never below 400,000 THB" rule does also cover the combination method
James ********
Which immigration office were you denied?

What is your nationality/passport?

Your home country?

Are you married to a Thai?

You are now in Thailand on an Extension of Stay.... When does it expire?

Do you make trips back to your home country?
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@James *******
Thanks for this. The other option which has been suggested is to get a single entry non immigrant visa valid 90 days and convert it to a marriage visa after 60 days.
James ********
@Ian **********************
since you are experiencing difficulty with renewal of your Extension of Stay...which currently expires 17 July, I suggest two steps:

1. Make a border run to obtain a 30 days exempt entry...

2. Prepare/gather documents and submit online an application for the O-A Visa from the UK. There are helpful posts about the UK online application E-Visa in this forum. And if you use the Search box top of this forum...Enter "O-A Visa UK" postings will appear from others who have applied for and received the O-A from the UK.
@Tod ********
may have other suggestions.
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
3 weeks James
James ********
@Ian **********************
How long will you be in the UK on holiday?
Ian ***********************
ORIGINAL POSTER
Nonthaburi. British. England. Yes, married 2009. Extension expires17 July. Got flight booked to UK for holiday 3 August (with wife).
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