What are the options for foreigners to buy a house in Thailand, particularly in Pattaya?

@Rikki *******

You can ffs, thousands have done it! You are confusing house with land

@Rikki *******

Wrong again. Condominium is an ownership structure not a type of building. Mine is a house.

@Rikki *******

, we bought a house 9 years ago, we lease the land for 30 years.

Who is we?

@Rikki *******

,a married couple (not Thai)

@Rikki *******

Maybe you should educate yourself on foreigners' ability to own houses before commenting further.

@Eric ******

I live in thailand and use a British financial adviser for 1 and 2 year investments in the uk and get 12 and 24 percent interest as an expat

@Eric ******

Holborn financial advisers

Inflation has no relevance? lol ok.

@John *******

, I know more people who bought a house than people who rent. With rent you have nothing, buy and you have a chance to get some of your money back, simple !

@Narong ******

, I know in my neighbourhood 3 farangs who sold their house , 2 of them to Thai people, 1 farang.

@Janin *****

hmmmm... Interesting... I mean there are ways to sell it of course... But it depends.... What agreement u have and who is the actual owner.... As they say NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE 😀

@Narong ******

, everything legal, with Thai/English lawyers. For the owner of the land is that a benefit. He can (if you go before the 30 years chanote) ask twice the price of the plot. I am sure they never refuse. But it’s not the only way ,new buyers can also take over the land lease from you. (If owner agrees)

@Paul *******

Probably right but you would only need someone like Anutin to take a look at it - it would be his dream to take that on.

@Jeff ******

And earn the undying hatred of the powerful who currently benefit from the system? It would be suicide.

Perhaps but Anutin's hatred of all things foreigner would overcome that. Thailand is trying, again, to attract the 'better off' expat, see the LTR visa for further evidence. Eliminating dodgy agent facilitated extensions could make giant leaps down that path. Again only my opinion but it wouldn't surprise me at all if a crackdown came for that very reason. It's low hanging fruit.

@Eric ******

I have a friend in Thailand Thats Exactly That, well she is 55 but looks good, owns a couple pieces of land and her house is on 3 Rai, newer build with nice wall around entire property, Cleared and clean, every moron she talks to is a scammer she tells me, or want to see her bit's after 2 minutes of talking

@Nigel *******

obviously it is the Thai who is the majority shareholder.

@Tony ********

so you don't really own anything!

@Nigel *******

that is essentially correct.

@Tony ********

Unfortunately, this is how a lot of westerners have been scammed.

@Nigel *******

the idea is that if the Thai shareholder decided he didn't want to renew the 30-year leases, the foreign company shareholder would vote against that because the foreign owners obviously wouldn't agree not to renew their own leases.

@Tony ********

Does that mean you can force him to sign it So you don't lose out

@Nigel *******

before the Thai becomes a director and shareholder of the company you will have already prepared the company shares to be issued in terms of A and B shares or preference and ordinary shares which would give him minority voting rights.

@Nigel *******

but why would the Thai make a problem. He would have signed up to be a nominee because you are prepared to pay him a monthly salary. He's not going to do it for free. So to be a nominee he's getting money for nothing. That's the deal. You find a Thai and say I need you to be a majority shareholder of our company. Sign these papers which will make you a director and I'll give you money every month. The Thai shareholder won't play any active part in the running of the company.

@Tony ********

i didn't know this thanks for all the info👍👍

@Nigel *******

however as I said in a previous comment it is perfectly legal for an offshore company to be a shareholder of a Thai company which counts as one foreign juristic entity no matter how many foreign shareholders there are of the offshore company. You can structure it so that the voting rights of the foreign company are greater than the voting rights of the Thai shareholder therefore out voting the Thai shareholder at board level. I've been involved in such structures with gated communities.

@Jarek ***********

'almost any lawyer'..... you mean the people with the deepest understanding of the legal system and fiduciary duty to their clients at risk of losing their hard earned career? Those people? I Don't think you have really thought that through. 'When the boys come knock on your door' 😂🤣🤣. Which 'boys' are you referring to? Are they doing a lot of door knocking in your 'hood? Ur gonna need to upgrade your understanding quite a bit here

@Todd ********

0dad4

@Todd ********

please give me contact info of a lawyer that tells you such setup is legal in TH? I had a meeting with couple of reputable law firms in Thailand and both said the same thing, that while such setups are possible and done by many they are still technically illegal and that is the end of story... As to the boys, you didn't hear of the recent investigation into such setups in Phuket?

@Jarek ***********

you are correct. The same goes for renewable 30-year leases. While they are not illegal they are not enforceable under Thai law. I used to be very involved with this and I had a direct meeting with the head of the Phuket land office through our legal team to once and for all interpret the exact Thai wording and its translation. And what emerged from this was very clear. You have the option to renew a 30 year lease but not the right even if you have made another lease for the future backed up by a contract and some money, if the landowner doesn't want to renew the lease regardless of any other agreement, it is his right not to renew. End of story.

@Jarek ***********

use Google search bar for ‘real estate lawyer Thailand’. Give any one of them a ring and ask them to set you up. Or go back to your own ‘reputable’ lawyer and ask them to set you up.

Nope - didn’t ’hear’ of the recent ‘investigation’. As there is nobody whom will be doing an ‘investigation’ which can change anything.

@Todd ********

, here you are….

@Janin *****

lol did you read this ffs. Give your head a shake

@Todd ********

, you need more examples?

@Janin *****

something somewhat relevant to the discussion would be ideal lol. What are you even thinking? What exactly is your point here? Just to bring you up to speed, the discussion is about how the poster can accomplish land ownership in Thailand. So any more posts you dredge up about massage parlors in Phuket will continue to be useless.

@Todd ********

, because so many give illegal information, and it’s not only in controlled in Pucket, also Chiang Mai , Bangkok and Pattaya…..even in Koh Samui…and this is not lol…

@Janin *****

you have absolutely no idea what is legal or not.

@Todd ********

, how do you know what I know or not, you would be surprised!

@Janin *****

I am already amazed liol. And not at all surprised that, in a world of 8 billion humans, there is only 1 human following you.... I can see why

@Todd ********

, I don’t need followers that’s for ego trippers, I have friends!

@Janin *****

you don’t have ‘followers’ because you have nothing relevant or interesting to say. Your friends seem to have abandoned ship also. Can’t say i blame them

@Todd ********

, you think you are a big man, but for me you are lesser than Zero. If I see your posts with 20 likes…5555, you are sneaking around on my fb you see the difference 5555…and as I say I don’t answer anymore to lesser than zero’s…

@Janin *****

lesser than zero? Oh gosh I feel awful lol. Beat it you weird ol creeper.

@Todd ********

, 👍because you have no arguments you attack the person, says more from you than me…… typical!

@Janin *****

i have pointed out the vast errors in your attempts. And i suffer fools poorly indeed. You will need to move along now

@Todd ********

A fiduciary duty is a legal obligation to act in the best interest of another person or entity. The person with the duty is called the fiduciary, and the person to whom the duty is owed is called the principal or the beneficiary. Fiduciary duties include duty of care, loyalty, good faith, confidentiality, prudence, and disclosure. This means they SHOULD tell you that company setup to circumvent ownership laws is illegal.

@Tony ********

yes, agreed - that is indeed the perceived problem. That the rules are being skirted by the nominee shareholder structure. Essentiially though, there is some form or similar issue in every nation. And it's next to impossible for lawmakers to stay ahead of the theoretical risk takers and rule benders. Could the rules be tightened in the future? Sure - it's possible. But then on to the next move for the risk takers

@Todd ********

as you know there are many laws on the books but they're not necessarily enforced. I think it's highly unlikely the government would invalidate every property structure that uses Thai nominees and thereby completely destroy the property market for foreign buyers. It's not going to happen.

But there is a downside. I know of foreign buyers who purchased very expensive ocean view properties 20 years ago who cannot renew their lease and therefore cannot even sell the property because nobody is interested in buying a property with only 10 years remaining on the lease. So it's gone.

@Tony ********

yes, agreed. And 'highly unlikely' would be vastly understating it. It's definitely not going to happen. And also agree that if one survives towards the end of the 30 year lease, their options may look very bleak indeed. But they will have gotten those years of use out of it and hopefully the amortized cost works out reasonably well in their favour. But not all will do so for certain.

@Todd ********

the wise ones would have been compensated by getting substantial rental income from the property over the years since most owners I know don't live here full time. The rental market has had its good times and bad times.

@Tony ********

also true i suspect. Many using those types of assets for rental income. And had likely done well pre-covid if in the right area. So they might come out well after all

@Tony ********

Actually a double-problem as in who is the Thai nominee. So often people nominate the Thai wife ................................... so come the divorce!!!!

@Tony ********

in theory yes that's definitely correct. In current practive of the Thai legal system, it's irrelevant.

@Todd ********

it's not irrelevant if the Thai nominee shareholder in order to finance his purchase of the company shareholding is given the money to do so in a brown envelope. I have seen this enacted by people with the deepest understanding of the legal system and fiduciary duty to their clients at risk of losing their hard-earned career. Having a nice office with your lawyer sign outside doesn't mean you're not a dodgy lawyer. And there are many. Let's just say we don't have the same standards here as you may have in your country.

@Todd ********

it's a neat solution but technically it's smoke and mirrors.

@Todd ********

I have set up structures like this for projects where the majority shareholder is a Thai nominee of the land owning company and a BVI company as one foreign juristic entity is the minority shareholder. The owners of the properties in the gated community are shareholders of the BVI company and it is this BVI company which has a 30-year lease with the landowning company. The way to get around the 51% majority Thai shareholder having control is to issue ordinary and preference shares which gives the BVI company majority voting rights thereby ensuring they would never veto their right to renew the 30 year lease upon expiry. In effect this means that the lessee's have a lease with themselves as the lessor.

@Tony ********

wasn't there a court case recently in Phuket that ruled that this structure was intended to circumvent the 30-year limit on leases? I remember the ruling said that the lease was canceled but then I never read any follow-up.

@Rick **********

I'm a bit out of touch with this business now so I don't recall that case, but it is definitely designed to circumvent the rule on leases. There's no doubt about it, but the question is will they really do anything about it. There's so much capital investment tied up in properties in Phuket. I can't imagine they're about to exact a wholesale disruption of that market.

@Tony ********

1/phuket-courts-void-ecured-leases-used-by-foreigners I don't know if the Supreme Court has ruled on it but I imagine at least some Land Offices stopped allowing the lease registrations. I used a similar structure as a lawyer (consultant) in Chiang Mai 25 years ago.

@Jx *****

so your smarter man is now facing tax and CGT when they come to sell in the UK whilst donating money to a home owner in Thailand - your definition of smart needs some work.

@Jx *****

the smartest man goes where opportunity knocks. Wherever that is. It's not hard. And your home country is heading for a dumpster fire in real estate. Get out while you can

@Todd ********

definitely wouldn't take advice from someone who tells people it's good to buy in Thailand.

As for Australia's market im okay thanks. Wasn't asking for advice. I'm very well diversified but for the average joe blow it's far better to avoid Thai. If you think otherwise you are clueless.

@Jx *****

yes - one would sure want to be diversified. The AUD is down 30% to the USD in the last decade. Not exactly a way to preserve long term wealth.

Someone has given you the impression that real estate in Thailand (especially tourist zones) has been a bad investment? Huh. Keep taking your advice from them

@Todd ********

real estate in Thailand goes down, not up. Everywhere

@Bluda *****

lol. You desperately need to re-educate yourself. That’s pathetic

@Todd ********

Too many properties for sale in Thailand, hence never goes up

@Bluda *****

'never goes up'..... i suggest you do a little research

@Eric ******

they can’t all be as pious as the Pope, who lives in a city-house!

@Brandon ***********

Not the same at all - totally different things, let google be your friend

@Brandon ***********

And!

@Brandon ***********

oh! Didn't know you were an expert on Thai business law. Forget the or not!

@John *******

I know how to read the news

@Brandon ***********

does "the news" always get it right, report the facts as they are without bias or distortion? Often they'll either exaggerate, distort or leave out facts to sell their 'product'. It happened just recently, with a 'preview' of a TV News story where I live. In saying this, I'm not taking the side of those who you have replied to, just pointing out something that does happen.