How can elderly expats in Thailand safeguard against health-related visa issues as they age?

Dec 20, 2022
2 years ago
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
* Commenting Closed, thank you for the responses, some of which are very reassuring so thank you. No point in arguing over renting our home out as we have clearly stated we will be selling it not renting it out for numerous reasons *

Serious question

In just over 1 years time myself and my wife are very serious about selling our home (we do not want to rent it out) and emigrating from England to Thailand to spend the rest of our days in retirement

My wife will be 61, I will be 55, it is my private pension that will provide our income with our state pension some years later

We have seriously looked at the elite visa with most expats in other groups all saying it is not worth the cost and instead we should keep simply have a retirement visa and put 800,000thb into a bank to validate the retirement visa

We love the idea of Thailand and know many tens of thousands of people have done exactly what we are wanting to do

But I have a fear, and as we get nearer to the date, my fear is growing

Would we risk getting to an age where our health is starting to cause the usual issues as you age, risk of a stroke, heart attack or worse and end up being forced* to leave Thailand and in effect have to return to the UK

*forced as in the relevant visa would be refused or cancelled

How do the elderly expats protect themselves from this

Please, any reassurance or guidance would be most appreciated

Thank you in advance
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TLDR : Answer Summary
A UK couple approaching retirement discusses their desire to move to Thailand, expressing concerns about potential health issues that could jeopardize their residency status. They prefer a retirement visa over an elite visa but worry about being forced to leave Thailand due to health decline. Community responses reassure them that as long as they meet financial requirements, visa cancellation due to health is unlikely. Suggestions include obtaining private health insurance, exploring care options for elderly expats, and understanding that Thailand offers good medical facilities. The conversation emphasizes being proactive about health care and managing risks over time.
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Tulip ********
You can never fully protect yourself. In a land ruled by generals it only needs the rise of an ultra nationalist party to throw everything into disarray. That's the risk you take, only you can quantify whether its worth it. I have rented out places for years, Nightmare tenants come in all shapes and sizes and agents are generally useless. Sometimes the best option is to take a hit now, sell off, buy a cheap holiday home, yes they still exist. Then you have a bolt hole to return to, a reasonably attractive area and easy to come and go without permanent tenants. I know others who buy a lock up and leave lodge in a country park, same principles. Liquidity is key when abroad and if in doubt always rent don't buy.
Eric *******
Don't ask yourself too many questions.

Being cautious and having a plan is always good, but over thinking stuff and being scared for no legitimate reasons isn't, ever.

51 and 55 is still young. And yes, I said young, cause it is on so many levels.

Thailand is one of the EASIEST country IN THE WORLD to settle down and become an expat of, if not the easiest.

It's got tons of Visas to suit your situation and profile, the safest environment on the planet (I've traveled 144 countries and lived in 7), top notch hospitals, an amazing cost of living, outstanding local food, unlimited goods options, more diversity than you'll imagine (scenery, food, landscapes, activities, attractions, etc...), one of the most desirable laid back mentality and an unmatchable quality of life, just to say the least.

If you can't migrate to Thailand with a quiet piece of mind, you won't be able to do it anywhere else and you're definitely not meant to live abroad AT ALL . It's that simple.

You're the perfect age to migrate with no problems at all in terms of Visas. You have the funds to finance your expatriation and lifestyle here, all the rest in only in your head.

So, just grab yourself a good health insurance (that you can always buy here in Thailand for a better price), if it makes you sleep better at night and make the move, no silly excuses.

Let me say it again:

If you can't make it here, as an expat, you won't make it ANYWHERE.

Take care.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Eric ******
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Thank You 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Eric *******
@Linz ***********
You're welcome.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
PLEASE, This is not about money, it is not about trying avoid health insurance or bucking the system, it is not about trying to manipulate coverage from the UKs NHS that we would not be entitled to, it’s not about selling or renting out my home back in the UK

My concern is, having moved/ settled and lived in Thailand for a number of years, through no fault of our own (no criminal act etc) could we risk our visa being rejected forcing us to leave the country

The response from Alistair pretty much answers my concern for which I am truly grateful

A classic example, a few hours ago, 74 year old man, overstayed his visa by 38 (let’s not assume why, we do not know the reasons) he’s been arrested and will most likely be deported. If something changes outside of our control, this could happen to anyone at anytime
Maple *********
@Linz ***********
sorry we talked about money because if you have money in Bank account 800,000 your visa will not rejected.
Tulip ********
Love the fact all these optimists who think they can sell their house in a tanking market. You will be gazundered to death and lose 30% of what you think it's worth. What planet does your UK exist on?
Tulip ********
Tanking to the bottom of a deep recession
Ralphy *****
@Tulip *******
tanking market ?
Ken ********
A couple of years ago I was talking with a retired US teacher who had to pay for any medical care here in Thailand. As a retiree she was covered in the US but not here, even though her needs are far lower in cost in Thailand. Facing any serious, costly treatment she would need to travel back to the US.

It got me thinking, I am living here with a reasonable pension income, but still pay UK tax on my income. I would face the same choice facing costly medical costs and am past an age to get medical insurance.

It would make sense to be able to access a low cost insurance from the NHS, a win win situation surely.
Tulip ********
@Ken *******
you have to be very very old to not be able to get health insurance
Ken ********
@Tulip *******
I am 79, but believe no company will take you on if over 65. Any that do will be very expensive, probably increasing exponentially year on year.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Ken *******
but how would you get coverage from the NHS whilst living in Thailand

Unless you are residing in the UK, registered at a uk address etc my understanding is this cannot be done ‘legally’
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
I totally understand why people return to the uk for treatment etc, that’s all well and good but what if you do not have anything to return too.

For us, not having any family in the Uk, we would have to fly back, stop in a hotel/ B&B and then do whatever we had come back for hence my concern

I agree with the majority, having paid into the system for 30+ years I feel it’s a poor show to then be penalised because we moved abroad, especially as you rightly say, we would still be subject to uk tax on our pensions
Ken ********
@Linz ***********
I think you are right, all I'm saying is that if I fall ill in Thailand, having paid NI until I was 65 and paying UK tax on my income it could be an option. As it stands I have to return for treatment, whereas our NHS would save money if I am treated here.
Terary **********
Thailand has pretty good health care. You will meet a doctor you like. Live healthy (advice I don't necessarily follow), throw caution to the wind.

You're going to get old and your body will deteriorate but at your age you have 20 years, hopefully. I wouldn't worry about it now but wait until start to have issues. When you are here you will find community and you will get better advice.
VaiAna **********
We're US citizens , left Hawaii in Jan 2022 , acquired retirement visa w/ multiple entry good for 15 months at the beginning then afterwards we renew every 12 months if we desire . Hubby is retired military, I'm not by US standard but since I'm 50 , I qualify . We kept a 5th wheel , home on wheels @ Thousand trails for back up . Always gotta have a back up just in case , like having money in a savings account . Hubby has health insurance thru the military and it covers us internationally . Thailand by far is economically and financially do able than the US . One of the beauty about Thailand is you can take your time trying to figure out where to settle . At the moment we settled in Koh Tao .
Peter ********
HI. I too am looking at the Elite visa and dont really understand why people are saying the elite visa is not worth the cost. You have to keep 800,000 baht in the bank for a retirement visa that you cant use where for 200,000 more i can get a 20 year visa (superiority extension elite). But medical insurance, because of age, have quoted me
*****
baht (£1000 month) which is 507,622 baht (£12,000 a year) and it does not include pre existing conditions ( in the past I had high blood pressure and cholesterol). In 2 years the medical premium pays for the 1,000,000 baht. Other then cancer the other major problems i will suffer from will not be covered. And I dont need medical insurance for the Elite Visa so as long as I keep money in reserve for medical bills i have a long term visa. I think which visa purely depends on individual circumstances. Or am I missing something????
Charles ****************
You should be fearing the next Spamdemic soon coming your way.
Lynnette *******
@Charles ***************
spam? There's never a shortage.
Brook ********
On an OA visa, which I don’t recommend, I was turned down for medical insurance by several of the 14 approved Thai insurance

companies.

Now on a NonO, Thailand could add insurance requirements any day and I would have to leave.

Not a lot of security here.

No incentive to invest or make large purchases like scooter, car or condo.
Jw ********
Just take the leap. Just sold everything in Europe to move here too and not worried about health care whatsoever. I was looking for a change in happiness level. My wife turning 50 next year, so we will go for retirement visa than.

Insurance is very important here, so research that topic well.
Garrett ***********
We don't turn off commenting in this group.
Sid *******
Check out Cambodia
Patrick ***********
Watch this about fear..
***************************************************************
Richard ******
You are at the age where you should do it if that is your desire. I am 78 and wish I had lived internationally when I was in my 50’s. You have far less chance of medical problems at your age than when older. Are there places in Europe you could move to if you have health issues when older? Where health care is free?
Marilia *********
Hospital care is expensive. I had an infection and stayed ten days in hospital and paid 5000 euros. I had a good insurance but after 5 days I was on my own. Antibiotics are expensive, cleaning my wound was around 50 euros a day.
Mick *******
@Marilia ********
....euros ???
Chris **********
@Marilia ********
Think you stayed in a private hospital. Government hospitals are not expensive
Marilia *********
@Chris *********
but with an infection you don't gamble.
Mark *********
Once out of the UK for 2 years, given you won't have been working for a British firm in Thailand, you will not have free access to use the NHS. Your access will be the same as a visitor ie emergency access, with definitions of that tightly defined. Beyond that you pay. Simply return to UK and all is well is an utter fallacy. Your need is to investigate international health insurance.
Tulip ********
Take out worldwide cover (excluding USA) then you can get 180 days per year anywhere
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Tulip *******
so that would not cover us living permanently in Thailand then? 🤔
Mark *********
@Linz ***********
I think the point being made is not that. You are covered all year in one place but can go to others for certain periods of time. Even a Thai international policy will cover you for time outside of Thailand. But Facebook is no place to discuss this. It is just too difficult and needs specific policy research. Sometimes you will be covered for a lesser number of days in USA than elsewhere, sometimes USA not at all, sometimes it's a list of places whereby you have no cover, USA included but maybe, say, Japan as well. Or again a reduced number of days cover. Region categories need to be considered for your prime cover Thailand is normally Region 2. Throughout researching the complexity your primary thought after Thailand is what coverage you have in UK since you seem to envisage visiting there. In fact William Russell a UK international health risk insurer are very good but likely not affordable. Take a look at their policies to see the shape of top-end policies to start to be able to make comparisons then it's research, research, research down to the deepest detail - and it is your research. Don't trust what a self-interested broker says and certainly don't trust what Bill says over the garden fence. One to look out for in Thailand is coverage only for using State hospitals not private ones at all - obviously that brings prices down massively, as do limitations on which private hospitals and/or the amounts covered under each category from bed costs to the medical aspects.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Mark ********
aaaaah yes, I see, thank you 👍🏼
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Mark ********
you are correct, the NHS is a residency based health care system, as we won’t be residing in the UK, the fact we’ve paid into the system for 35+ years is irrelevant and yes simply flying back to the uk does not give you instant nhs coverage again
Mark *********
@Linz ***********
Insurance is the way forward but be very careful with what company. There are some massively dubious schemes here focused on expats needing cheap and late, meaning late start but also late continuance. Thai schemes tend to cut out early. Actually, they tend to be expensive too. But best not to go in the other direction, going for super-cheap. Remember you get what you pay for. Particularly look out for what financial authority a business is registered with. In fact try to check that for both insurance provider and agent.
John ****
I would probably move home when serious health issues occur. I trust the Thai medical system for routine issues but not for more advanced care
Maple *********
I don’t think you will have any problems if you have money.
Mark ********
Enjoy the sunshine and heat .go for it life's short
Martin *********
Life’s a gamble .. a gamble I took nearly 8 years ago .. so far , no regrets 🙏 .
Jimmy *********
Worry about something that may never happen is a bad mindset that will only leave you with regrets in life. If you are healthy now is the time to enjoy yourself while you can. I came over here 2 weeks ago at 54, I have no idea what might happen or what I am doing. I am just winging it while I have the health to enjoy myself. If something happens, then I will deal with that if that time ever comes. If you want to live in Thailand then try it. If you hate it, you can always go back home. If you love it, then everything will be all right!
Nick *******
Myself and my Mrs are doing the same thing . UK house for sale and have already bought a house in Thailand that is being renovated.

I think you can worry too much about what if ???? Screw it and just go and cross problems when they occur. Life's to short 👍
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Nick ******
awesome, thank you AND who knows, we might meet up for a coffee/ beer in a couple of years, hope everything goes smoothly for you
Nick *******
@Linz ***********
🍻🍻 hope you go for it 🍻🍻
Seth ********
I agree with Dimitri. Rent out your home so you can always come back.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Seth *******
as mentioned, we will not be renting out our home but thank you for responding
Paul ********
@Linz ***********
Up to you!!
Alistair **********
@Linz ***********
how do you have income and a place to return to?? You're either renting it or not. Your ignoring the return on investment that the sale proceeds could go to. Is there no family for address or short stays? If not renting it out the maintenance costs are high and a pain. As someone who has property left vacant...
Paul ********
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Paul *******
mistake?

Don’t be too hard on yourself, an easy mistake to make but I did clearly state we would not rent out ourselves home (for reasons that are irrelevant to this thread)
Alistair **********
@Paul *******
no one can know that. It's a leveraged investment that whilst magnifying gains also magnifies losses. Retirement is a stage of life where you want to reduce risk. We also have no idea of the level of equity they have or lifestyle they want to say what is or isn't the best investment choice for them.
Paul ********
@Alistair *********
Think about it

Income, UK Address, Easy to Fly back for. Medical, Pension up 2•5 ?? Every year
Lynnette *******
@Paul *******
depends how long away for. Some have found they cant use nhs if away a few years.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Paul *******
awesome, great idea

BUT as clearly stated, we would NoT be renting out our home, won’t go into details why but it is the right decision for us
Dan ********
@Linz ***********
Pauls points are be very valid, and many times in your future here in Thailand you will come unstuck by these, and maybe you'll remember being told, and then understand the link. But why not rent out your home ? What personal reasons ? I have a friend who not rents out his ski chalet in France, or villa in Ibiza, but it's because he's super rich and doesnt want idiots shitting in his toilet. You have concerns of a financial nature, and you have a solution, but by you wont say why you can't accept the simple solution infront of you. You have to be 100% honest and open if you want to get back 100% honest and open.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Dan *******
ok,

1) We would have absolutely zero reason to return back to the uk once we have emigrated

2) we have no family left in the Uk, our son lives in Australia, our daughter in New Zealand

3) By the time we have paid for agents fee/ maintenance fees/ insurance fees/ accountants fees and the relevant taxes it would not be financially worth the effort

4) Having a stranger living in what was once and has been for 30 years our home does not ensure access to the NHS

5) The emotional attachment to our home would become happy memories once it is sold, if rent it out risks heartbreak if we still own it but the renter should abuse it in any way

Does the above help clarify some of the reasons why we will not rent it out

We do not have any financial concerns, that is people making assumptions which in itself is not exactly being 100% honest, as mentioned our concerns are linked to getting old and our health declining to the point we would not be able to get an appropriate visa to remain in Thailand, again that’s us being 100% honest

I appreciate all the comments received and yes, 100% honesty should ensure 100% relevant responses but that is not always the case, as mentioned, we will NOT be renting out (that’s us being 100% honest) yet here I am feeling obliged to explain why we will not rent out
David *********
its ok whilst you both in good heath, hospital visits are expensive for westerners an no uk nhs here
John ****
@Da***
I found healthcare cheap and easy to access
Dimitri ********
Rent out your home instead of selling it. That way you can always return.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Dimitri *******
as mentioned, we will not be renting out our home but thank you for responding
Kev **********
I have spoken to many expats who tell me they have had great care in hospitals in Thailand. I am here not had any health issues yet. No one is going to stop your visa because of ill health
Russell *******
Your both still young , make the most of the opportunity 🙏
Ernesto ********
@Russell ******
sometimes people don’t want to be careless and throw caution into the wind.
Russell *******
You could stay home and not enjoy what you like about Thailand and have no real health issues. Then you would spend your time wishing you had gone to Thailand.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Russell ******
good point, thank you
Alistair **********
There's nursing homes setup specifically targeting elderly westerners who want better care for cheaper then in the west . They take care of people from just elderly all the way up to bed ridden. So I doubt visas are an issue, especially if you have money. Care is also cheap here, you can have a full time live in carer for under 20k baht per month to keep living in your own home.
Alistair **********
Riyaz Hussain no offence but I'd rather stick my balls in a blender than join whatever ponzi scheme you're running
Alistair **********
Riyaz Hussain okay...
Alistair **********
Riyaz Hussain what...
Monica ***********
@Alistair *********
are there any in Chiang Mai that have a range for someone that is still pretty independent to needing more help?
Alistair **********
@Monica **********
I'm certain there would be given the high western retirement demographic there. If you or the person is somewhat independent then you might be better off in your own home with live in or daily carer.
Monica ***********
@Alistair *********
thank you. It's for my father. I would just feel better if it was set up instead of then worrying about a daily care person coming in.
Alistair **********
@Monica **********
maybe make a post asking here or in a Chiang Mai group for recommendations. Some I've seen do seem quite good, but I've got no personal experience so there's far better people out there to advise.
Gee ******
@Alistair *********
Just out of curiosity have you contacted or used a caregiver agency? I ask because I’m considering starting a business in assisted living and caregiver training
Alistair **********
@Gee *****
I used an agency to find live in help.
Gee ******
@Alistair *********
Thank you for your reply 🙏
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Gee *****
no, my concern is more for the years ahead, a “What If” type scenario. At present we are both fit and healthy but we also accept as we age, health is no certainty hence trying to get my head around “What if” happens and how we would deal with it as by then we would have no links at all back in England
Gee ******
@Linz ***********
Yes understandably so. My question was directed at another person regarding their 20k quote for caregivers.

I agree it’s wise to be prepared for the future. We will all reach a point when we’ll need assistance for health care needs.

I was working in health care for 25 years and know what should be done to prepare for the inevitable future.
Linz ************
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Alistair *********
brilliant, thank you so much for responding, this is exactly the sort of reassurance I was hoping for and not expecting get, thank you, our journey seems so much clearer now
Marc *********
You protect yourself by having the best insurance money can buy
Pete *******
Private Health Insurance, a good policy will be roughly 65k baht a month per person
Pete *******
Apologies 65k per year for 54yr old and it rises with age
William *******
@Pete ******
It’s dependent on age,health and pre existing medical conditions. Premiums are different for different folks.

Also,most insurance companies do not issue new policies to those over 64 years of age.
Bill ********
@Pete ******
I’m 61 and that’s my premium for the whole YEAR!
อ้วน *********
@Pete ******
this is completely incorrect
Mimmo ************
@Pete ******
a year?...65.000 Is a lot of Money..!
Brandon ************
Visa refused or cancelled for what reason? As long as you meet the requirements, they're not going to kick you out of the country for bad health.

The actual name of the retirement visa is something along the lines of "living out the rest of your days"

The whole reason for being required to show the 800,000 baht each year is to prove you can take care of yourself if something bad were to happen.
Ernesto ********
@Brandon ***********
I think a few people are afraid of the ever changing requirements of extension of visa. What if they cannot renew medical insurance for whatever reason and that’s a requirement. Elite visa might not require insurance the length of the visa
Alistair **********
@Ernesto *******
money talks in Thailand, yes they have crackdowns, but they last a few months then back to business as usual. This is the land where money speaks, you can always find a way to stay if you have money and/or know the right people
Maple *********
@Alistair *********
omg 😱 you say the truth!!! Haha
Ernesto ********
@Alistair *********
that’s not reassuring
Brandon ************
@Ernesto *******
then buy an elite if the requirements change on the retirement visa. No need to buy it now when it's not needed.
Ernesto ********
@Brandon ***********
that’s what he was asking
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