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Do UK expats in Thailand lose future UK state pension uplifts by receiving payments into a Thai bank account?

UK State Pension Thailand Expatriates Pension Uplifts Residency Rules Benefit Fraud International Banking

Nov 27, 2024

4 days ago

Stephen ********

ORIGINAL POSTER

Quick question for any UK expat who are receiving state pension in Thailand, is it correct if you ask the UK state pension department to send your pension direct to a Thai bank account, you will lose any uplifts to the UK state pensions in the future.

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TLDR : Answer Summary

UK expats receiving their state pension in Thailand face the issue of pension uplifts being frozen if they are considered full-time residents. It has been confirmed that whether the pension is sent directly to a Thai bank account or a UK account, it is the residency status that determines eligibility for future increases. Therefore, once full residency is established in Thailand, the pension will be frozen, leading to potential complications regarding overpayments and tax issues.

Bill ********

My Thai girlfriend was married to an Englishman for 20 years before he died. Would she be entitled to a widow's pension beneficiary?

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Brian ********

My Thai wife will receive a pension when I die, this is not from the state, that dies with me, it is a private pension

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Pete *******

no.

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Bill ********

why not?

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Pete *******

because UK Widows pensions no longer exist.

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Bill ********

OK, thank you.

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Pete *******

perhaps you need to clarify what exactly you mean by Widows pension. Are you talking about a private pension beneficiary or the UK state War Widows pension. More info gives a better answer.

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Pete *******

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Bill **********

Yes

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Bob ********

This doesnt affect me as I am Australian, but In Australia, as soon as we hop on a plane, Social Security get notified via passport ID, and we have 6 weeks to get back before several allowances are discontinued, we have to reapply for some. I thought UK would react in the same way, regardless of your banking arrangements.

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Brian ********

Here's a wee warning for all those talking about benefit fraud.

The government has recently got itself a new piece of software that traels social media looking for anything that indicates any sort of benefit fraud. It is then flagged up for investigation.

So, be careful of what you say on here.

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Gerald ********

Correct, I have said this before not just this subject but any reference to being out here,.your registered on arrival with imagination and no doubt that is visible to most governments.

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George *******

If your not honest 😂😂😂

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George *******

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David ***********

Yes. Nothing to do with bank accounts. If it goes to your UK account still no uplift if youre not a UK resident. May be harder for them to catch you if you dont declare youre not resident but if they do, thats Tax fraud which is very serious im afraid

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George *******

@David **********

It's not tax fraud, it is pension fraud, two different departments but fraud all the same and I have been led to believe there's plenty of UK pensioners doing it, not just in Thailand, but in other countries. Using relatives addresses in the UK as their residency and telling the DWP nothing. To be honest I don't blame them. The Governments are treating UK pensions like they are means tested benefits. Your UK state pension is a pension scheme you have had to pay into compulsory for decades. Freezing it for some pensioners, but not others that live overseas is discrimination all day long. What the government should do is scrap the triple lock and only give it to pensioners that are in receipt of pension credit. All other pensioners including all overseas pensioners should get a 2.5% increase annually. Rough annual cost would be anything between £120 & £130 million for the overseas pensioners increase. Considering most pensioners of today had to pay into the state pension scheme for 40+ years, paying them 2.5% increase annually would be peanuts compared to the £10 billion a year the government doesn't seem to have a problem shelling out to keep illegal gimmegrants that haven't paid for the privilege of living in the UK. Your a damn site better off being an illegal than a law abiding National here in the UK.

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David ***********

yes, youre correct and i agree with all your points completely. Live in one foreign country you get an uplift, in another, no uplift. Stupid. BUT, my point was to be careful as fraud against the UK government is very serious and if you get hundreds extra a month on an uplift youre not entitled to over 20 years thats a very large fraud and no excuses will be accepted. Youll be expexted to pay it bacj and large fine as a bare minimum and possible prison if you return to the UK. Thats my only point to warn people.

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George *******

@David **********

Don't know about hundreds a month increase, more like £20 to maybe as high as £45 a month depending on inflation or average wage increases, which ever is the highest. Or if 2.5% is higher than both inflation or average wage rises, then that's all you get. I presume your not from the UK, otherwise you'd be aware that state pensions, unless your one of the boys, IE., top civil servants, MPs or Lords, increases are not much.

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David ***********

i am Brittish and since Covid the pension due to the triple lock and double digit inflation has increased notable in 4 years. If youre in Thailand retired for 20 years, add all that extra up and its a very large fraudulent claim. Overall, 20 years starting 2020 youd probably defraud 80-100k in that period. Last 4 years alone its gone up 200 pounds a month.

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Ally ************

@David **********

The reality is that after 20 years of 'defrauding' as in your example.. a UK pensioner would be 87 years old already.. and in all probability wouldn't care less what the govt thought or did.. and there's every likelihood that such discriminatory rules will be repealed before then anyway.. the corrupticians that have been allowed to run the country for far too long are about to be exposed for the criminals they are!

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George *******

@David **********

I understand what you say that if someone has been in Thailand for twenty years AND has been listed as being resident in the UK for that period, then the accumulation over twenty years could add up to £400 a month, but if I'm not mistaken when I read your first post it didn't mention £400 a month accumulated over twenty years, to me it gave the impression mistakenly that a person could of been getting the annual increase in the first year April pension increase of £400 a month. That's why I thought you were mistaken on that issue.

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David ***********

honestly, no problem. Lots been said. Really the amounts dont matter. It was more a polite reminder of the implications of what the poster was suggesting. Anyhow, no problem

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George *******

@David **********

I don't understand why anyone, especially someone getting their state only British pension would risk getting caught. If they had no assets apart from say about £10k, if they invested it in a safe way, they'd cover at least the lowest pension increase per annum of 2.5%. Not worth the risk.

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David ***********

indeed. I think simply they thought it wasnt a big issue and wouldnt be a big problem if caught. It would be which is why i reminded everyone

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David ***********

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Jeffrey ************

Yes.

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John **********

It doesn't matter where your pension gets paid into, if you live in Thailand it will be frozen.

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David ***********

@John *********

correct

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David ***********

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Andy ************

Correct

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Andy **********

I've heard it's best to get your UK pension sent to wise into your GBP account, turn on interest payments, and just transfer as and when needed into your Thai account.

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Stephen ********

ORIGINAL POSTER

Thank you! 🙂

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Michael *******

It’s fraud and if you get caught serious consequences ……..

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Rob **********

Yes that is correct.

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Pete *******

Whether you send your state pension to a Thai bank or not is irrelevant. What counts is your residency. Thai tax residents are not eligible for uplifts in UK pension payments. This is known for decades.

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Stephen ********

ORIGINAL POSTER

sorry I am a bit confused, I am not a Thai tax resident, I do not pay taxes in Thailand, I still have a UK address, but I will still be in Thailand when I claim my pension

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John **********

@Stephen *******

if you live in Thailand then your UK pension gets frozen. Tax residency has nothing to do with it.

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Pete *******

@John *********

not true, you can live in Thailand 179 days a year and still get your UK pension uprated. It is indeed tax residency that determines the uplift. Once you lose UK tax residency you lose your pension uplift and state healthcare benefits.

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John **********

that is entirely untrue. It's residence that's important not tax residence. You can retain UK tax residence and still be subject to a frozen pension

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John **********

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Ken ***********

@Stephen *******

how many days per calendar year do you plan to stay in Thailand ?

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Stephen ********

ORIGINAL POSTER

@Ken **********

we are here for the unforeseeable future as we need to look after my wife’s mother and niece, my wife is Thai and we are living in her house.

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Ken ***********

@Stephen *******

if you plan to reside in Thailand more than 180 days in 2025, you will be considered a Thai tax resident, which will freeze your UK pension and may make you liable for Thai taxes.

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Ken ***********

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Brandon ************

@Stephen *******

if you spend 180 days on a tax year in Thailand, you're a Thai tax resident.

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Brandon ************

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Dick **********

Yes

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Will ************

Your pension is frozen the day you become full time resident in Thailand. They can claim back overpayments from you via deductions from future payments

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John ********

Yes that's correct unless you have a address in England for the paperwork to go to and a bank account in England for the money

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Peter **********

poor advice, fraud is a criminal offence

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Paul *******

If you are living overseas, that you clearly be fraud. If they found out you would be prosecuted and lose the money.

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Graham ******

correct, the DWP will be refunded the annual increases obtained via this fraudulent act at your expense and possibly prosecute

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John ********

to be honest I have a few friends who have been doing this for years 😄😄

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Peter **********

John Harper then they are all breaking the law and will get found out eventually and end up with a criminal record meaning they will be unable to ever get an OA visa which requires police clearance. Crs is now in operation.

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John ********

@Peter *********

they are all in Thailand now 😄😄

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Peter **********

theres a task force on this now and its just a matter of time before they are found out. its not worth waiting for the govt letter on its way.

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Peter **********

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Mike *******

they will freeze the account

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Mike *******

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Mike *******

some banks in uk are now closing for expats.They check transaction ....

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John ********

so you have a family members to help you ie take the money out and send it to you so they will need your bank card to get the money

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Mike *******

thats will work short term but when there is no daily usage the pattern changes....

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Mike *******

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Robert ******

Yes,same in Cambodia, Phillipines you will get the increases.

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Robert ******

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