Why is the group emphasizing the use of visa agents now, and are moderators affiliated with them?

Jun 22, 2023
a year ago
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
As a long term member of the group. I am an expat living in Thailand for the last 7 years, been married for 28 years and first visited Thailand in 1989.

I introduce myself in this way because I am an open book and use my real name.

As a member of this group I have got so much value from it in educating myself in so many aspects of Thai life. I have also recommend it to dozens of my friends who have also got great advice and value from it.

I understand that the group was bought by a visa agency a few months ago. After that I read that the intension of the new owners was to keep the group as it was and maybe even improve it by adding a different perspective.

Recently I have seen a distinct change where moderators are pushing the use of Visa Agents when in my opinion that was not the correct option.

Would it be possible for the moderators and admins to introduce themselves? If possible also declare if they will gain personaly or professionaly if members of this group use an agent.
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TLDR : Answer Summary
A long-term expat raises concerns about the group’s shift towards recommending visa agents after it was acquired by a visa agency. Current moderators clarify that they operate independently without personal or financial gain from promoting agents. They explain instances where recommending agents is appropriate due to complex visa situations while emphasizing that their primary goal is to offer accurate and helpful guidance to members. Several commenters back the moderators' stance, stating that the group does not push agents and remains focused on providing valuable support to expats.
Chris *********
Great words
Melanie ********
Well said Andy !
Roberto *********
I agree. There's one poster who continually pushes Thai Visa Centre (which can only be seen as for his own gain). If you challenge his stance and suggest the process is easy to carry out independently he becomes very insulting, which I believe is a bad reflection, not only on the group, but on the agency.
Brandon ************
@Roberto ********
I blocked that ass long before I was ever even a moderator here.
Roger ********
Thank you. I recognised that something had changed. Now I know why.
Steve *******
I think that, because visa agents are an actual real part of expat life in Thailand, until they give the whole immigration system a real overhaul, we should be able to discuss abd recommend agent services.

That way fewer people will get scammed by agents charging 400% more than others and and also learn what risks are involved in buying a visa through an agent. Sharing of information and real life experiences are a good thing 👌
Roberto *********
@Steve ******
That's the biggest thing is the transparency. If you're paying an agent say 30,000 baht to avoid keeping 800,000 in a Thai bank account, it's so obvious a bribe is being paid. How about just being honest and stating this fact, instead of using this pathetic "tea money" term? It's bribing a government official. Just be honest
Tohksic ******
Um, since when does FB allow groups/pages to be sold/bought by a controlling administrator/founder/"owner" since no one individual (or company other than Meta) can actually "own" a group/page according to FB TOS? Has this been changed? I started a coupla buy/sell groups in another country with 80k-ish members each now....would love to make some cash off them if legit.....
Gary ****
@Mar ***
you are selling adnin rights to a group as you rightly state that Zuckerberg owns everything. There's big business selling these admin rights as you are effectively selling a database of people with common interests
Tohksic ******
@Gary ***
Ok but that's semantics, unless Meta is actually inexplicably allowing it. Hard to enforce of course, technically, if two parties keep it a secret between themselves. Which obviously didn't happen here since it's (the sale) being posted about publicly by the mods. Hence my confusion about Meta's official stance on the matter and/or the actual legalities involved as 3rd parties conducting a transaction on a product they are beneficiaries of at zero cost. I just find it hard to believe that Meta would let anyone make a dime off their product without at least getting a cut of the action.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Thank you all for your responses. I have learned that you have 3 moderators; Stuart Cummings and
@Garrett **********
two guys that I have learnt a lot from over my time as a member.
@Brandon ***********
for me is a more recent name.

I will give you two very recent examples. Firstly
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in particular this response from someone who has been prominent on this group for a long time.
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4/?mibextid=Nif5oz in particular this response from someone who has been prominent on this group for a long time.
Chris *********************
@Andy *******
my be prominent on here but not admin or mod, it's the people or person chosen agent not the site .
Roberto *********
@Andy *******
I blocked this prick, because he got very insulting towards me when I suggested people should use the booking system in order to minimise their time at immigration. He went on to criticise Australia and the Australian way of life, and implied that Australians are sheep who are happy to "stand in line" (his favourite term) rather than paying his mates
*****
+ baht
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
My biggest concern is if I am going to continue recommending friends to this group I want to be sure they get the best possible advice. I was sure of that previously I am not so sure now.

I was also hoping for a little bio on the moderators as I posted. It is not a biggie I understand how much time and effort moderating such a group must take.

Thank you again for all your replies.
Chris *********************
@Andy *******
why come on anyway all you are doing is looking for a argument, and nit picking. Stewart, Garrett, Brendan, and even Michael Dawson, a x mod has told and provided proof, of recommending agents.

Give it a rest.
Roberto *********
@Chris ********************
Perhaps you should tell those that continually push agents and become derogatory towards those who have no interest (especially in the payment of bribes) to give it a rest too?
Chris *********************
@Roberto ********
unfortunately I am not in a position to block them people who push agent's.
Chris *********************
That sentence should have said not recommending agent's
Alistair **********
@Andy *******
just recommended the other Thai visa advice group then. This is a group with input from a lot of people and its not always correct, but it's a good group to improve your understanding on Thai visa issues and Thailand in general.

The other group will give you accurate blunt advice with zero commentary, if that's what you're after.
Todd *********
Alistair Thompson as well as no mention at all of the agent option on Thai Visa. Which is a good thing. Keeps them focussed on those specific issues. So maybe ideal for Andy’s ‘dozens of non-online friends’
Garrett ***********
@Andy *******
That's one person, a member of the group, who recommended using an agency. He didn't name a specific agency to use or post a link to an agency. I don't understand how that correlates to the group and it's mods/admins pushing agencies?
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Garrett **********
this is the crux of the post. I don't think this would of appeared on this group a couple of years ago. I would feel uncomfortable if a friend who was new to Thailand just went to an agent and thought he or she was legal and wouldn't have problems in the future because of using an agent.

I have dozens of examples of friends, not online, who have had major issues from using agents. These range from false stamps to one friend who was in hospital in a coma whoes agent didn't get the correct extensions on his behalf ended up on a long overstay when he finally recovered.
Brandon ************
@Andy *******
in this group we generally allow people to say whatever they want and only remove comments when they have incorrect information, advertise too much, or make personal attacks on other members.

There's another group if you're interested in purely visa information and nothing else which is Thai visa advice

There they don't allow posts about ANYTHING other than visas. Boo questions about bank accounts or where to make copies for your paperwork etc.

They also close the comments to every post after the mods respond. If you're concerned about agents then that group would be better for you since they don't even allow the mention of agents.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Brandon ***********
can I also thank the moderators for approving my post. I thought it may not be.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Brandon ***********
do you share the view that it is not a problem to disregard the financial requirements of a visa and just pay an agent instead?

I believe that there are many problems with that approach.
Brandon ************
@Andy *******
I never plan to use an agent and don't think people should in general. Too many potential issues. But you can tell people things a million times and in the end they will do what they want to do anyways.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Brandon ***********
completly agree.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
The second recent example is this one. This looks like an advertisement for visa agencies, although not one specifically, to me.

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9/?mibextid=Nif5oz
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Now this advice don't worry about immigration rules and use an agency for a retirement visa or visa extension is just wrong. As with having a work or marriage visa if you loose your job or wife your visa is no longer valid, the same us true if you don't meet the financial requirements then you are in breach of your visa and technically on overstay.
Todd *********
Andy Oswald hard to tell if you are chronically whiny or just have no life. Screen shots of my comments? Really? How about you ask me if you have issues with MY post? Or am I expecting a bit too much from you?

If you don’t understand the role of agencies, that’s fine. That’s why sites like this exist. So people like you can learn. From this comment you completely and totally misunderstand what agents do. What is it exactly that you have AGAINST agencies? What do you have to gain? Quit being ridiculous. Agents are simply a good answer for many people. And many situations. It’s not the 1980’s anymore.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Garrett ***********
I would love to see ONE comment where any of us have "pushed" using a visa agent.
Richard *********
Its not that the mods/owners are pushing agent's, Its that immigration office's are making it a pain in the ass to go direct>

ur choice always
Todd *********
@Richard ********
that’s a fair assessment.
Stuart *********
As one of the mods I would like to concur with
@Bra****
that none of us have an affiliation with the groups owners. We do this on our own time and for no financial benefit.

We would rarely ever suggest going down the agent route unless circumstances would probably require that. Even though the owner of the group is an agent. They don’t tell us how to manage the group nor ask us to push their services.

On many occasions we would recommend someone using a service like a visa run company to do a border bounce or visa run. Purely because they know how to “grease the wheels” for those that have past histories of entries. The same would go for using a “fast track” service if flying into Bangkok or Phuket. Not for gain for us or the groups owners, just because it’ll probably work out cheaper for the person to use use one than not.

If you ever see a post or comment about someone recommending a particular agent or service then please let one of us know so we can review it.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Stuart ********
I appreciate that as a group of moderators you have no affiliation with the group owners.

I also thank you as a member for all the great information you have provided. It must be a huge commitment to moderate such an active group.

Incidently you don't show as a moderator when commenting on a post.
Ruth *******
@Andy *******
hmmm…on this post, I’m not seeing his moderator tag either, but I’ve seen it numerous times before. Must be another thing currently broken in Metaverse.
Stuart *********
@Ruth ******
this is how it shows on my phone. Perhaps a phone type issue or just Facebook playing mind games….
Ruth *******
Stuart Cumming right here. Your initial comment doesn’t show your tag on my phone.
Ruth *******
Stuart Cumming well, you’re back to showing as moderator now for me too. Yes, it seems to be a fb glitch. When I first saw Andy’s post, you didn’t have the tag showing on my phone.

You weren’t showing as “top contributor” either, which is what I find funnier. You had no tags whatsoever. What I did not notice is whether anyone did.
Stuart *********
Andy Oswald I have no idea why. Must be a Facebook thing. For others I seem to have a tag as “Moderator” and “Group expert”. Although the latter I have no idea how it got appended. Not my call at all.
Michael ********
Lets me come from perspective of someone who has been both sides of fence and was there when group was bought

I was either admin or mod when Thai Visa bought the group.

The only financial thing from selling group was to the guy that started the group. There is no "bonuses" or incentives given to moderators for pushing any visa services nor is it requested.

I left because after covid work for me started coming back big time and as Brandon said lots and lots of people send messages rather than post on group and some of these can be urgent such as person is stuck in immigration and you end up on phone with IO. So the group is more time consuming than you think.

Also personally didnt like the addition of collecting e mail address by new owners, but easy enough to put fake e mail in
Mandy *****
@Michael *******
what do you mean in your last comment in regards to collecting email addresses? Members email addresses? For what purpose? Thanks for your explanations. They are helpful.
Michael ********
@Mandy ****
when you sign up they ask for e mail address. No idea of purpose. But easy enough leave blank, i used to approve membership if was blank
Mike *******
I have never noticed Moderators pushing anything.
Jared **********
The presence from the visa company is minuscule, and if anything people are overwhelmingly suggested not to use agents unless for specific conditions.

I came for the covid protocols, i stayed for the unintentional comedy.
Madz ******
@Jared *********
it's the unintentional comedy that is a hold 🤣👌🏽
Gary ****
I'd say the contrary. I know it's been owned by an agent for a while but in the early days they had some clumsy interactions with poor feedback so have thankfully mostly withdrawn.

In the meantime the mods here offer brilliant help, personally I use it as an education resource as you know what gets proffered by them is objective factual help.
Jack ****************
I've never seen our Big People push agents. Maybe you transposed two groups?
Mandy *****
May I ask what it means when you say that Thai Visa Centre has bought this page? What does buying this page entitle them to? Thank you for answering clearly above, that's helpful.
Juls ******
@Mandy ****
matching their name, advertising
Mandy *****
@Juls *****
do you mean spamming this groups members?
Juls ******
@Mandy ****
this, I dont know, but is it legit to ask what is the point of a company ?
Brandon ************
There's only 3 of us moderators, and none of us have anything to gain from this group at all. We're not affiliated with the agency that bought the group.

Could you provide some examples of what you are describing?

I rarely recommend people to use an agency, but when I do it's because based on previous experiences of members, the situation they are in would either be difficult for them to solve on their own or impossible. And when I do recommend an agency I usually explain why.

We do not allow agents to advertise in the group (or any other advertising at all for that matter) but we do allow people to recommend services they've personally used and have experience with, whether it be transportation, real estate agents, or visa agents. When that endorsement is in response to a question we let it stay as long as it's not excessive.

Usually the 2 circumstances that I recommend an agent is when someone wants to do a land border bounce from Bangkok and have a long history in Thailand, I'll recommend Thai Visa Service since they have a good reputation and are easy to use since they pickup and drop-off from the Lotus at On-Nut BTS station.

The other time I recommend an agent is when someone has a long history in Thailand or problematic visas like an ED or Volunteer in their passport and they want to fly into Bangkok or Phuket visa exempt or with a tourist visa. Then they should utilize a VIP entry service which will ask them for their history and give them a price to guarantee entry through the airport. When someone is likely to benefit I will recommend to contact Thai Visa Centre (who are the owners of this group) as I don't know of any other agencies that offer the service. I'm sure they are out there I just don't know of any.

(Don't confuse VIP entry with Fast Track. VIP entry includes Fast Track but just regular Fast Track is not the same)

One final note: for every horror story you see posted the group, us admins know of 3 more that came to us through DMs of people begging for help or suggestions on how to fix a situation. We have a lot of experience with the bad experiences of others. We try to help where we can but we don't know everything and don't have any special connections.
Roberto *********
Roberto *********
Roberto *********
Roberto *********
Brandon ************
@Roberto ********
oh I'm well aware. He's been an ass for months. He also likes to get in pissing matches with a few specific members every time they're both in the comments 🤷🏻‍♂️
Roberto *********
Roberto *********
Roberto *********
@Brandon ***********
Riding on the BTS with some time to spare, I've found a few examples of where this condescending POS tries to push his views on to others and if they reject his overtures he resorts to derogatory remarks and sarcasm. He does continually push
@Thai *****************************
which makes me (and many others over a period of time) believe he either works directly for that organisation OR he's on some kind of commission. I don't believe he's a mod in this group. However, I can tell you now he's not doing TVC any favours with his approach. While he's associated with TVC, I wouldn't be recommending anyone go there. I'll attach a few more screenshots for your perusal
Steve ********
@Brandon ***********
Nothing wrong with the mods in this group, it's those posters who continually push the services of one particular visa agent, and when challenged he becomes offensive. For someone to get that irate suggests to me he is getting "commissions" from the agent. Easy to scroll past, but it doesn't do reputations much good.
Andy ********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Steve *******
I see exactly how you would come to that conclusion as I have come to the same. It doesn't help that there appears to be a glitch in the Facebook software that doesn't always show who the moderators are.
Dave **********
Colin *********
Brandon Thurkettle just out of curiosity, I had a check to see who the Moderators are and found there to be 4 listed and one of them twice for some reason.

While I have your attention, I have been in this Group for a few months and read many Posts. I would like to commend you on the way you help members and your professionalism. I intend to post for the first time shortly (commented on other's posts a number of times) and I'm sure that you will be there to offer some good advice.

I was surprised though, to see that you don't live in Thailand (according to your Facebook profile.
Brandon ************
@Colin ********
I'm back and forth too often so I just keep it as my base in the US but I have an LTR so coming and going is easy.
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