How does the UK Embassy's decision affect British citizens needing a Retirement Extension in Thailand?

October 8, 2018
6 years ago
Henry *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Any idea how this will affect Brits needing a Retirement Extension?
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TLDR : Answer Summary
The UK Embassy's recent decision to cease certifying income letters has raised concerns among British expats needing a retirement extension in Thailand. Previous methods that simplified the application process are being replaced by stricter requirements, including direct banking evidence of funds. Users express frustration and worry that the new rules might lead to increased complications and potential financial difficulties for expats relying on retirement visas.
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Robert *******
I close the commenting. It is a decision of the UK Embassy, not from Immigration. Tens of Thousend of complaints should be nice but I read in another comment that Italians and Dutch has the most expats living in Thailand and the amound was less then 6.000 pro country.
Joe ***********
The British Embassy or any other Foreign Embassy are not to blame on this issue. After pretending for 10-12 years that they didn't know that the financial content of Embassy Income Letters / Income Affidavits were not being validated by the Foreign Embassies, Thai Immigration back in May insisted that the financial content be substantiated by the Foreign Embassies Consular Services staff assure as soon as possible that financial content is being validated.

Embassy Consular Services have never been in the business of verifying the content of routine financial declarations as done by Expats. Rather only the ID and Signature were being verified.. The Brit Embassy said we cannot venture into such a costly and potentially legally risky service.

So Thai Immigration is left holding the bag. They can either back off or deal with tens of thousands of complaints or devise their own verification procedures.
Tod *********
That's not quite true because AFTER May I've accompanied many people of a bunch of nationalities to the immigration office for their extensions who used the notarized affidavit of income from abroad (brit, auzzie, us, kiwi,) and NOT a single one of them were questioned about proving the amount on the paper was real.
Ron *******
UPDATE coming tomorrow. Saturday 13th.
Ron *******
@Tod ********
apparently it will be good news for ALL foreigners according to a source that 99.99% actually knows. Now, whether its been rescinded or the fact that Bank statements will be accepted, I've no idea. I'll post as soon as I see anything.
Tod *********
There is a petition circulating where brits are asking their consulate NOT to discontinue the notary service.

What update are you talking about?
Robert *******
Ron Angel posted this Video, as this is the same content as this topic I moved it here:
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Darren *********
Hmmm Cue the Thai lawyers with a new ‘Financial Accounting Retirement Certification for Ex-pat’s’ or F.A.R.C.E. For short, 15,000 Baht a year. 😉
Jim *******
US Embassy still notarize financial statements. Do not require proof
Jon ******
In theory, any consulate could do a notary service for any document they feel comfortable notorizing. In practice, I dont see how it would work (would their bosses allow it, international incident if you notorize fraudulent docs, etc).
Jon ******
@Robert ******
normally you must go to the embassy/consulate that the passport was issued. E.g. If you are using a Spanish passport, you go to the Spanish embassy/consulate to get your income affidavit.
Jim *******
Robert *******
Also for non US citizens?
Leo *********
Bitcoin starting look interesting yet?
David **********
@Leo ********
wouldn't touch it, too voletile
David **********
The £ will rise when the UK has a stable government and strong economic outlooks,

Australia has the same issues.
John *****
The market buys the rumour and sells the fact. The rumours in, hard exit, anything better and the pound benefits from the 1.30 area, my guess.
Mike *********
But I’m not sure that’s correct. The £ is currently at bargain basement prices, factored at a problematic, no deal Brexit. ANY DEAL better than No Deal will see the £ rise, and this is what we all expect
Kenny *********
Looks like I'll be applying for my Irish passport after all.
David ****************
@St***
. I believe that practice stopped a few years ago (Australia & USA)
Kenny *********
Fuck it, Cambodia it is then.
Steve *******
@Paul ******
Or actually proving you have the monthly income. Some country fucked it up by issuing the avadavit without actually needing any proof. Seems like Thai immigration has wised up to this
Paul *******
I understand that Thai Immigration is putting this pressure on the Embassies of all countries. I would not be surprised to see the other embassies following the lead of the British. I believe that the Thais will pressure us all into making deposits into their banks as a way of staying in Thailand.
Tony ********
Could have the same problem and the Brit Embassy in BKK once looked after the ROI.
Tony ********
For expats to be treated in such a cavalier fashion is quite disgraceful. My army and state pension have been sent to Thailand for some time now. Am I now to expect my Thai bank to wade through my account to show monthly transfers - while I stand waiting at the counter? Seems unlikely. For expats with no lump sum this is all going to end in tears and severe hardship for many - and quite soon for those that require proof within the next few months.
Steve **********
Every monthly statement should show a total of deposits and total debits made to your account for that statement period.
Tony ********
@Ivan ***********
Thanks. I already have my proof letter from BKK (I always get it as early as possible(5 months!) in case of hiccups) for my extension 5 Jan 19 so no immediate worries but it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next 12 months.
Ivan ************
@To**
we don't know right now. Will have to see how it plays out. Just pointing out that the banks already do the letters for the lump sum people and that part of it is really no big deal.
Steve *******
@Ivan ***********
Exactly, 100bt from your Thai bank or £50 from the British Embassy. No contest!
Tony ********
Ivan McAvinchey That sounds great but will Immigration except that on its own without a consular proof letter?
Ivan ************
@To**
they have all this on a computer. It's a form letter. The current one (for the lump sum) I believe they charge 100B for, which is a lot less than the consulate charged for the income letter!
Tony ********
@Ivan ***********
Ok but they'll have to wade thro statements and they ain't gonna do it gratis! BUT will it be ok for immigration?
Ivan ************
It could end up being as simple as a letter from your bank verifying at least 65,000 monthly FFTs, with a copy of your bank book. The banks do this already for the lump sum, it would hardly be any more complicated for them. If you have 65,000 monthly actually coming in to a Thai bank account already, you are likely in the best possible situation for this, it may not affect you at all (beyond that you no longer have to go to and pay the consulate every year).
Lloyd ********
Pathetic that people don't know the difference between a diplomatic mission and an office of consular affairs.
Steve *******
@Ll***
Yep, so many people dont know the difference between an Embassy and a Consulate
Lloyd ********
@Ivan ***********
It does, but that does not mean that the embassy/diplomatic mission provide consular services. People are slagging off the embassy, when consular decisions are nothing to do with the embassy.
Ivan ************
@Ll***
the source of this is the British Embassy Bangkok, so it would seem like the British Embassy don't know the difference either. They seem to think that the embassy has a consular section that provides consular services!
Henry *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Pathetic is maybe a little strong, but yes, most people have no idea.
Ron *******
Copied from another forum.

#2

Posted 2 hours ago

My Canadian embassy told me they too will stop, I went for my letter of income lastweek and the woman at my Canadian embssy BKK ,(who has been their for years) told me this was coming ,I asked why ,she replied ''too much paper work'
Robert *******
At least they are honest. Not here to work and help their citizens, because too much paper work.
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Lance *********
Seems it's a 5 million baht HISO visa full amount in low interest bank account or move !
Ivan ************
It's still 800,000 in the bank for the retirement visa. If by "hiso" visa you mean Thai Elite, that's 500,000 for 5 years or 1m for 20 (note- that is a fee, you don't get it back).
Ron *******
If your Canadian, you may wish to watch your government website pages.

I'm reading they are about to make an announcement.
Lance *********
On multiple occasions the British embassy charged me 50 gbp for a piece of A4 with a fancy stamp and could not be bothered to check if my UK Government pension was legit or not ! These want us gone the UK are complicit - were all doomed !
Lance *********
so the numinous statements of income were imagined then !
Lloyd ********
@Lance ********
The embassy never checked anything or issued anything.
Lance *********
Thai Visa forum crashed after one comment lol
Lance *********
this is a total nightmare
Lance *********
ok
Boba ******
David ************
@Boba *****
as I thought. Put funds in the bank.
Robert *******
The Dutch Ambassy changed this last year. From just a letter which you send to them with a monthly income to get stamped and returned, now you have to show your income, tax payments and they can check with the tax office in the Netherlands if your figures are correct.
John *****
The UK embassy needed to see evidence of your income and if they were satisfied with the evidence you sent them they detailed this on the letter they sent to for immigration. As it happens I sent them tax info which they accepted. Sounds similar to the Dutch system. My guess is that the Thai immigration services want more.
Robert *******
The rules of Thai Immigration did not change. Thai Immigration wants to see an amount in your Thai bank or an Income statement of monthly income from your Embassy. It is the UK Embassy that changed their rules.
Peter ****************
Aha! So that's the difference. Ok, thx !!
Robert *******
@Peter ***************
The Dutch made a deal with the tax office in the Netherlands that an Embassy is allowed to get information from the tax office to check your income. The UK Embassy seems not to be able to do the same.
Peter ****************
But is'nt that Bull from the UK Embassy ? I mean for the dutch income statement ("visumondersteuningsbrief", nice word) as you know, you have to show, besides copy passport, your income from pension fund or other income, and the deposit of this money for 2 months on y'r bank account. I have it sent to my Thai bank account but dutch account is also OK i guess. So think for an embassy this is prove enough I should think. And as a sample they can/must check some times. Hope for now, this not happens in the Dutch embassy too. Greetzzz
Biff *******
Legalisation processes in general are a complete farce. The uk government doesn’t check anything. I recently helped someone get his university degree legalised in the uk by the uk government and the Thai embassy. At no point did anyone check anything to see if it was real or not. If you read the small print on the declaration, all the FCO did was declare that the solicitor’s signature was genuine. He looked at the copies of the degree certificates and the transcripts for five seconds and signed them. No one during the entire long drawn out process did anything other than put a stamp on things. It cost hundreds of pounds in total. The Thai government departments both in the uk an in Thailand are quite happy with these stamps that prove that absolutely nothing was checked by anyone.
Ivan ************
Yes it's entirely possible the UK embassy just decided this was too much work and went back to their gin and tonics. Good on the Dutch for being conscientious and looking after their citizens interests.
Robert *******
Could be that Thai Immigration informed the Embassies to check the income before hand out the statement. But the decision to not hand out proof of income because they can not check your statement is made by the Embassy.
Ivan ************
I don't think it's just the UK embassy that changed here. They say "The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals." That suggests there was a request from Thai immigration. Coming this is at the same time as the issue with Thai immigration in certain provinces not accepting US embassy declarations, I suspect this is being driven from within Thai immigration, not a UK thing.
John *****
This is a big blow.

The embassy affidavit route was so much easier than the hoops one has to jump through by going through the bank account process.
Steve *******
@Mike ********
Used to have to go in person and pay £50. 100bt for the letter from the bank. Looks like you cant go at all now
Mike *********
@Steve ******
was done by mail 7 days
Jp *******
@John ****
i didnt know that because few years ago i was doing my letter at Bangkok bank in Silom a few days before
John *****
@Jp ******
I've been prepared from the day before and had all my previously prepared letters and statements pushed back at me and told that they needed to be done on the day of application. That's why I went embassy way, so easy and simple.
John *****
CW only accept a letter issued on the day of extension application and want to see a transaction in the account on that day as well.
Jp *******
@John ****
u can get the bank letter at least a day before. For the bank book u can update it yourself on the machine outside the bank. I had also updated my bank book day before and it was ok
John *****
@Jp ******
With the bank option I to wait for the bank before queuing then am stuck at CW for most of the day
John *****
Time's the issue, I prefer to get to CW early, queue, get early interview and finished in 30 mins.
Jp *******
@John ****
at CW, u go to your bank downstairs and get a letter to show your 800k. And they will update your bank book at the same time. Take less than 30 mins at bangkok bank and letter is 100B. Then go upstairs to get extend your visa at Immigration. What so hard ?
Ivan ************
Many people would prefer not to have to keep 800,000 in a Thai bank account.
Steve *******
@Jo**
Each to their own I guess. Pop in the bank, out in 2 mins with a letter.
John *****
@Steve ******
embassy application online, simple, letter returned by post, no visit to embassy required.
Steve *******
@John ****
Personally it's a lot easier for me to go to the bank rather than the British Embassy
John *****
@Steve ******
at Chiang Wattana?

You have to make a transaction in the account on the day of application and get a statement on the day of application. This all make preparation very difficult.

Embassy letter easy, fill in a form, send evidence of income to embsssy and go to immigration with complete paper work already and complete.
Steve *******
@John ****
Ive always found it easier just to have the money in the bank. Far more hoops getting that letter every year.
Lance *********
just looked at the embassy website see no evidence of the above
Lance *********
sorry mate could not see it before
Ivan ************
What do you need to know exactly? Gov.uk is the official site of the UK government. If it is posted there, it's legit.
Lance *********
this link tells me absolutely nothing
Ivan ************
@La***
this is posted on gov.uk, it's legit
Robert *********
I believe you can still go through the Foreign Commonwealth Office to attain this Document. However you will need to check.
Robert *********
They are further update from Embassy, either have funds in account, or pay monthly into Thai bank required monthly payment.

Depending on Retirement or Thai wife status.
John *****
@Robert ********
thank, would be interested, but have a suspicion the the Thai immigration authorities are probably asking embassies for solid guarrantee of income, in light of the US lose process that they started cracking down on recently. So would be interesting to know what they asked of the UK embassy that they said no to and ended up canning the process.
Robert *********
Hi John Saw, when weighing up my options earlier this year. I considered returning to UK, checked FCO site all that I needed could be acheived by post with them.

In the end had Monthly income verified by Embassy Bangkok.

Believe you will need a UK address for postal then documentation forwarded to you.

Site saved so will look it up and repost here. Or add comment to Thai Visa site.
John *****
@Robert ********
How? Can this be done now in parallel to the embassy process?
Paul *******
Not good. Thin edge of the wedge. Thai Immigration already want US nationals to prove their income. Now UK will no longer issue, they say, because they cannot confirm income figures. Australian Stat Des are still accepted. But for how long. Soon, I believe, only way to get a retirement / Marriage Visa will be to have the require funds in a Thai bank. Poor show for us expats.
Ron ******************
@Steve *********
I checked Transferwise out. I cant move SA rand into Transferwise. I can move currency into Rand from USD etc.
Ron ******************
@Steve *********
I will chack it out. Thanks for the advice.
Steve **********
@Ron *****************
Move some currency into Transferwise on a quarterly basis and buy baht on the dips. Transfer
*****
baht monthly from Transferwise to your Thai bank account.
Paul *******
@Mike ********
I believe that it is true that some agents and some Immigration people were arrested. Apparently agents were putting the money into applicants bank accounts. Then paying the bank to provide a false letter stating that the deposits had been in the accounts for the required time. Once they had the letter the agents then withdrew the funds from the applicant account within the same day. The Immigration staff were complicit in accepting the application without sufficient proof of the funds after they accepted money from the agents. No knowing how far the department will go with their crackdown. But the new boss is a relatively junior officer for that position. It is known that he is ruthless and wants to make his name to secure further promotion.
Mike *********
@Paul ******
yep saw that too.. whether it's true or not time will tell. But a sceptic might say this does seem to possibly drive business their way...
Paul *******
@Mike ********
I saw this week that the new boss of Immigration is cracking down on agents and the Immigration staff that illegally assist the agents.
Mike *********
@Ivan ***********
yeah that’s a good idea. As things stand, you could argue it’s cost effective to pay 15k to an agent rather than exchange 800k...
David **********
@Ivan ***********
I prefer it
Ivan ************
@Mi**
it's not necessarily ever going to get any better. But you can use a FCD if you want.
David **********
@Mike ********
yes the rate is not good, I transferred into a foreign currency account here in Thailand, it Is acceptable for immigration
Mike *********
@David *********
transferring in 800k at 43 less than appealing too
David **********
Mike *********
@David *********
I'm not so sure. The UK embassy wouldn't issue a letter without seeing bank statements so I fail to see why it's not accepted. Saying that, the Press Release says clearly no more letters will be issued after December. Huge loss of income for British Embassy too I would imagine. Once the change is in, you either have 800k in a Thai bank, pay an agent or fuck off home lol
Ron ******************
@Ivan ***********
already moved all possible funds out of the country, but certain funds and assets cant be moved. I moved my funds at B 4,2 to the Rand today its B 2,4 to a Rand, for once made the correct move at the correct time.
Ivan ************
Ron if you have any savings it might make sense to move them out of South Africa. If it is pension income more difficult
Ron ******************
@David *********
if all else fails I will have to start a business again with all the drama involved. The unfortunate thing is there are people like me that invested in a Thai business and after selling it invested most of it in the country again and is financially independant with this money, but must still show inflow of foreign funds.
David **********
@Ron *****************
ah OK difficult I understand
Ron ******************
@David *********
South Africa.
David **********
@Ron *****************
and you would be charged 220 bhat every time you use an ATM,

Which country are you from?
Ron ******************
@David *********
the only problem is that my country of birth do not allow me to do monthly foreign currency transfers unless I complete a stack of documents at a local bank. This means I must either fly back every month or draw the money on this side at an ATM. If I draw the money at an ATM and deposit it at my Thai bank it is not considered by immigration to be a foreign currency transfer. If they should stop the income declarations I am pretty buggered.
David **********
All nationalities need to obtain a stat Dec, or letter from the Embassy of their country, USA and soon the UK will need to provide proof of income, I would guess this is through bank statements,

I'm pretty sure this will happen across the board with everyone seeking a non, 0 within Thailand.

The easiest way is to just transfer the funds, if possible use a term deposit account if you don't need to use the cash.
Ron *******
Thai immigration will not accept the income formula unless you get the letter. That's the problem.
Ivan ************
Biff it's also worth noting that is the British Embassy's interpretation of the rules. It may not correspond with the reality- which is also likely to vary based on the province. But I don't think they are doing away with the possibility of an extension based on income, if you can actually prove the income. There are reports from Chiang Mai (where immigration stopped taking the US embassy declarations a while back) of Americans getting their extensions by showing proof of income from the US, without moving it into Thailand. What changed is Thai immigration would not longer go on the embassy declaration alone, but they would still do an extension if supported by proof of income.
Biff *******
It doesn’t say how like no the monthly income needs to be shown for though. Is it transferred every month for a year? How would you do that without already having a yearly extension? Is it transferred for one month? I guess we’ll have to wait for someone to test it out at immigration.
Ivan ************
As far as I am aware Americans can still get an extension based on income, they just have to actually demonstrate their income to the Thai authorities. The UK embassy page linked seems to say this is still an option, you just need to show it to the Thai authorities. They do suggest you have transfer it monthly into a Thai account.

>British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa.
Paul *******
@David ***********
Yes. I agree.
David ************
@Paul ******
probably working as planned. Force funds into low interest accounts.
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