Answered6 months ago
How can I obtain a TIN in Thailand if I am a tax resident but not required to pay taxes?
Hi there, need advices regarding TIN application.
So I'm on DTV, I legally don't pay taxes in Thailand (or anywhere in the world), I have been in Thailand for over a year now so logically I'm a tax resident here, even know I don't need a TIN as I fill criteria to not being taxable ( : I don't remit any money in the country).
I wish to invest online on investment platforms such as IBKR, and to create an account, I need the TIN of my country of residence. I get it, trading and investment platforms are heavily regulated.
I have been to two different branches to ask for a TIN, refused two times, peoples think I'm strange for actively requiring a TIN while I don't need one, and refused to the reason that I needed to have taxes to pay to obtain one.
Has anyone been in a situation like that before, or know a branch that would understand such a situation ?
Cheers
So I'm on DTV, I legally don't pay taxes in Thailand (or anywhere in the world), I have been in Thailand for over a year now so logically I'm a tax resident here, even know I don't need a TIN as I fill criteria to not being taxable ( : I don't remit any money in the country).
I wish to invest online on investment platforms such as IBKR, and to create an account, I need the TIN of my country of residence. I get it, trading and investment platforms are heavily regulated.
I have been to two different branches to ask for a TIN, refused two times, peoples think I'm strange for actively requiring a TIN while I don't need one, and refused to the reason that I needed to have taxes to pay to obtain one.
Has anyone been in a situation like that before, or know a branch that would understand such a situation ?
Cheers
Answer summary
The original poster (OP) seeks advice on obtaining a Tax Identification Number (TIN) in Thailand, emphasizing their tax residency status despite not remitting any funds. They encountered refusal when applying for a TIN at two branches, with officials noting they do not require a TIN as they aren't taxable. Comments reveal differing experiences with acquiring a TIN, with some suggesting OP might be able to use a fabricated TIN for investment applications. Several participants discuss the implications of being a tax resident after spending over 180 days in Thailand, with intricate discussions on tax liability concerning remittances, suggesting the OP may need to demonstrate the sourcing of funds in legal contexts. Many commenters propose alternative solutions for investment requirements while encouraging OP to clarify their financial activities.
31 repliesnewest first
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GreyEle*******
OP claims they legally don’t pay tax anywhere in the world. Has desire to open IBKR account and lived in Thailand for over a year.
You are definitely a tax resident of Thailand as you spent more than 180 days in a calendar year.
Any money you bring into Thailand via transfers, ATM withdrawals, Credit Card purchases, AliPay etc., are remittances.
You owe Thai tax on those remittances unless you can prove they came from pre 2024 savings or pre Thai tax residency.
You can claim Foreign Tax Credits if you paid tax on your money in another country that Thailand has a DTA with.
As you are a tax resident you should lodge a return for each calendar year you spend more than 180 days in Thailand. Even if you don’t own any tax.
Ignorance does not equal “legally don’t pay any tax”
You are definitely a tax resident of Thailand as you spent more than 180 days in a calendar year.
Any money you bring into Thailand via transfers, ATM withdrawals, Credit Card purchases, AliPay etc., are remittances.
You owe Thai tax on those remittances unless you can prove they came from pre 2024 savings or pre Thai tax residency.
You can claim Foreign Tax Credits if you paid tax on your money in another country that Thailand has a DTA with.
As you are a tax resident you should lodge a return for each calendar year you spend more than 180 days in Thailand. Even if you don’t own any tax.
Ignorance does not equal “legally don’t pay any tax”
Anonymous ******************
GreyElephant🐘 He's tried to pay but they won't give him a TIN 🤷♂️
Simant ********
Expat Tax Thailand got mine all online in few days and delivered to my home. Try them but realistically you should be able to get it yourself. But when I opened IBKR, I just left a note that I don't have it right now and will update it in a few weeks. This should hopefully unblock you into investing while you figure this out.
Andrew ********
If you dont have a bank account they can't track your tax liability thats the same thing I ran into on a student visa when I went to get a Tax ID I was advised if I dont have a bank account they cant track what I bring into the country
GreyEle*******
@Andrew *******
there is a common reporting system so Thai authorities can get information on account details for overseas banks. They now have AI matching systems to build a picture for individuals. They also know who has been in the kingdom more than 180 days so would expect some remittances to be able to live. Whether those remittances are taxable is something you need to prove.
idiots******
Did IBKR ask for a TIN? When I tried to open I went to their office in HK which is the regional office they only asked me for the long term visa and a utility bill or rental contract. I ended up opening w an address in a different country.
GreyEle*******
idiotsomchai it might depend on what you want to trade. I have IBKR and trade US shares and they needed a TIN as well as filling in US IRS tax forms ( I am not from US )
idiots******
GreyElephant🐘 sounds like your account was stablished at the IBKR in the US because the accounts opened in HK dont have those requirements. The HK accounts have US shares available for trading as well but there are few funds that are not available. I visited their HK office and their representative told me the difference was minimal in available trading products
Anonymous ******************
I got it quite easily so did my friends. Just ask them what docs do they require from you. Usually TM30, maybe lease contract, and passport. If I remember correctly they did not ask me for anything else.
Elías ********
Participante anónimo 975 are you or those friends on a DTV?
Anonymous ******************
@Elías *******
YesJohn **********
How on earth have you managed to live in Thailand for over a year without remitting any money to Thailand? Do you actually understand what remitting means?
Elías ********
@John *********
two years here. We don't remit, we don't need to.John **********
@Elías *******
please explain how you can live here without remitting any money
James *******
@John *********
he's selling favours to sailors down the docks.
Marc ********
@Elías *******
if you use Alipay you pay the bill to Alipay in China and they pay 7 eleven for you in Thailand?Anonymous ******************
@John *********
They won't give him a TIN did you read all the post?John **********
Anonymous participant 355 yes, and if he was due to pay tax he could get one. My point is I simply don't believe he has lived in Thailand for over a year without remitting any money to Thailand, whether or not that money is taxable or not is a different matter. He can't live on fresh air, the only other explanation is he doesn't understand the meaning of the word
GreyEle*******
@John *********
adding to you claim here. Have seen several thai accountants and lawyers mention that remittances include withdrawals at ATMs and international Credit Card payments for goods and services in Thailand.John **********
@Elías *******
it doesn't matter how you achieve it, you are still bringing money into Thailand. Whether that money is then assessable for Thai tax or not will depend on the source of the money. Your idea of a cross border payment is no different to me using my UK debit card to pay for items in ThailandAnonymous ******************
@John *********
Looks like Elias has solved it. 👍John **********
Anonymous participant 355 that's remitting
Elías ********
@John *********
****************************************************************
*****
727 when I pay with my Korean bank app in Thailand, it's a cross-border payment, not a remittance. It's the same when a Chinese person uses Alipay to pay at a Thai ****
. It's not a remittance.Anonymous ******************
@John *********
They probably brought a big bag of cash with them, very smart.
Victor *********
TIN is not the same as a residency.
Did you end your residency in the country of your citizenship?
I've been setting up offshore structures for years, PM me, I'd be happy to help.
Did you end your residency in the country of your citizenship?
I've been setting up offshore structures for years, PM me, I'd be happy to help.
Andrew ********
@Victor ********
once you are in thailand for 180 days in a year you are a tax resident and your funds you bring in can be assessed for tax liabilityVictor *********
That's international law, it doesn't mean your home country residency gets cancelled.
Anonymous ******************
Seeing as you don't need a TIN just make one up for the investment apps, job done 👍
Danny *******
Anonymous participant 355 IBKR will close account without
Elías ********
Participante anónimo 355 TIN needs to match your name
Anonymous ******************
@Elías *******
Not sure the investment apps would be able to check that 🤷♂️Activity
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