Do I have to pay tax in Thailand if I've already paid tax in the UK on the same income?

Mar 2, 2024
9 months ago
Adrian *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
This dual tax if I've paid UK tax do I have to pay tax in Thailand on the same money? Sending my wife money to buy land, planning on building a house.
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TLDR : Answer Summary
The question revolves around whether a UK expat must pay taxes in Thailand on money that has already been taxed in the UK. Most comments suggest that if the money has been taxed before coming to Thailand, and it is not considered income (for example, if it is simply transferred savings or money sent to a spouse), there should generally be no additional tax obligations in Thailand. However, complications can arise based on tax residency status and the specifics of the Thailand-UK double taxation agreement. It is also implied that sending money for property purchases may require understanding the local tax implications, particularly around gift tax and ownership laws.
Nick ***********
No
Stephen *********
NO
Keil ******
No need to pay tax
Michael *******
I have not read all of this in detail but I would also review the double taxation agreement if relevant. This is often overlooked.
Daniel *****
@Arch ********
These people? Only a fool would think that there are no highly skilled craftsman, architects or engineers amongst the entire population?
Chris *******
My experience so far

No tax on my transfers

I pay tax on USA prior to getting here

I have sent 3 transfers and none have been taxed by Thailand

I’m not sure how they know if you pay tax on the money prior to coming here

But they haven’t forced me to prove I’m tax paid already

Good luck
Jeffrey ************
@Chris ******
It only started on January 1st. You won't know until next year..
Chris *******
@Jeffrey ***********
Ok well I have transferred 2 myself 2 times already

With no tax consequences

Mine are taxed by USA
Ken ******
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44-chiang-mai-tops-world%E2%80%99s-most-polluted-cities-due-to-rampant-forest-fires/
Richard *******
@Ken *****
when they do the annual burn-off, it's time to leave.
Ken ******
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/15/high-air-pollution-levels-in-bangkok-spark-order-for-city-employees-to-work-from-home/ thai accepted AQI of 105, but WHO minimum standard is 56
Ken ******
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*****
565 bette live in the south
Vivian *********
How come
Ken ******
@Vivian ********
bangkok air pollution

difficult to tackle, one

reason being online

purchase and food order

so popular and motorbikes

inevitably used for the

transport, others push the

blame to cambodia

farmers burning the crops?

and even burning incense

sticks in temples recently

and people tended to drive than taking public mass transport, too crowded during peak hours, parking space in condo is free

hanoi, vietnam is thinking about

motorbike ban in certain

districts too by 2025,

should thailand follow?

***********************


/news/news/hanoi-to

-evaluate-motorbike
Vivian *********
@Ken *****
l Pay taxes beer running my pickup internet buying food and motorcycle and cigarette what you bought it's Tax?
Ken ******
but if you love thailand, better not care too much about contribute a bit more by paying tax due, maybe more attention should be turned towards air pollution, pm 2.5, smog …

seems even bangkok not immune to it, not only the northern part like CM
Ruth *******
@Ken *****
I have not yet decided if I “love” Thailand. I like it a lot. I’m disappointed in how it’s changed since I left. I certainly don’t “love” it enough to pay an extra 35% towards everything when so many other options are available.
Vivian *********
taxation is for Thai people work in the broad and coming back into Thailand nothing to do with you care or any European or Western country
Ken ******
every country has its own

rule,so far it seems the

philippines is most friendly and

much less restrictive, nothing

like 90 day or TM30, for retirees, same for malaysia
Ruth *******
@Ken *****
add Cambodia to the list.
Ken ******
guess the critical issue is the onus of proof, will you be required and able to explain satisfactorily which part of income you sent is not taxable, as you may mix up all income, or your aggregate income come from different sources, some taxable, some not. Some think about using loophole, guess these loophole if any will be known and closed or tackled very soon
Ken ******
some one interpret as below:

those people

from countries which have

a double tax agreement

with Thailand could still need to pay new

tax in Thailand,

double tax means that you

will receive tax credit for

taxes paid outside of

Thailand. So, if you are

assed as having to pay

usd200 in USA and usd300

in Thailand, In Thailand you

would pay 300-200=100

dollars in Thailand.

anyway the risk is that one still likely to fill a tax report form with income and asset and let authority decide which is taxable and which be exempt. Filling the form could be a tedious process, depending on how it is designed, and whether there is english translation, or chinese? if not, hopefully no.need to seek professional help. And how can one prove whether the remitted income already taxed in other jurisdiction?(for example you have multiple income sources, and some sources already taxed but some exempted due to different tax law in another country )

does double tax exemption imply blanket tax exemption without need for exemption on an item by item basis (income source item/category) or need comparison of individual category, eg investment income, rental collected or simply pensions
John **********
@Ken *****
this seems rather confusing. You are assessable for Thai tax on income remitted to Thailand. If that income has already been taxed elsewhere (in a country with a dual tax agreement with Thailand) then you get a credit for the tax already paid. If you only remit part of the income to Thailand you get a pro rata credit. Some of the tax agreements allow that certain income is only taxable in your home country so if you only remit such income you would have no Thailand tax liability. It's not straightforward, you need to be able to read and understand the issues covered in the tax agreement between your home country. If you didn't pay tax on that income because the rules in your home country says it was exempt is kind of irrelevant, Thailand has its own exemptions that would apply
Ruth *******
@John *********
it’s very complicated if your taxes in your home country are complex. At the very least, you’d be paying someone in Thailand to handle the paperwork and hope they do it properly. Given the confusion and how many different things I’ve heard about it from the “experts”, I’m not comfortable with that at all. Also, for U.S. citizens, it means giving one’s SS# to yet another person. It’s far too risky.
John **********
@Ruth ******
not sure why SS comes into it, that is only taxable in the states. It's not assessable for Thai tax at all, and neither are pensions or annuities. Whether your US tax is complicated or not it's fairly straightforward in Thailand. If you remit income its taxable, other than income excluded by the tax treaty, and you then get a credit for tax paid on that money in the states. Any competent accountant in your home country should be able to help you avoid having to file a Thai tax return at all.
Ruth *******
@John *********
I don’t see how. If one lives in Thailand for 6 months or more a return is now necessary. Taxes may not need to be paid, but a return must be filed. How does one show whether or not taxes have already been paid on all income? A tax return. What does a tax return contain? One’s SS#.

Also, “any competent accountant” in my home country is ensuring a minimal amount of taxes are being paid. Deductions for X, Y and Z ensure that. Some of those taxes DO need to be paid at a later date though (lookup 1031 exchange for one example if you’re scratching your head). Again, the system is complicated and it’s not easy to just say, “You didn’t pay taxes, so now you need to pay them to Thailand.” I don’t intend to give lessons on the tax system that took me years to understand in a Facebook post, especially since the situation is not relevant to so many folks here. However, the most simple item, and relevant to most Americans, is that our SS would need to be shared. That’s a very bad idea for anyone with something to lose. Just sayin’.
Roberto *********
@Ruth ******
The 180 day rule has always been in place. It's nothing new - just more misinformation being spread by trolls! Further, no tax return is necessary. I've lived in Thailand for years and never once filed a return - and that won't change
Ruth *******
@Roberto ********
I never said that the 180 day rule was new. However, the tax laws have changed regarding transfer of savings and they only relate to people who are tax residents, which would be anybody who stays over 180 days. I’m not going to fight with you about MY choices. You do you
Roberto *********
@Ruth ******
Wrong again. Tax laws have definitely not changed in regard to transfer of savings. The new tax law applies only to INCOME. But no doubt you've been duped by the online tax experts who are touting for business! 🤣🤣🤣
John **********
@Ruth ******
The tax laws have not changed, only one small part is being interpreted differently. It has nothing to do with savings, it's entirely to do with how assessable income is brought into the country. Previously if you brought assessable income in the same year you received it it was liable to tax. Now any assessable income you receive after 01 January 2024 is liable to tax when ever you bring it in. That's it.

It sounds like you have absolutely no intention of living in Thailand for any extended period so I've no idea why you are arguing about something that won't affect you anyway.
John **********
@Ruth ******
I'm not sure where you get the information on the Thai tax system. It's entirely about assessable income, as your SS is not assessable inside Thailand there's absolutely no requirement to include it in a Thai tax return. Therefore any tax you pay on your SS is also not relevant. You don't even need to register for a TIN (Thai tax number) if your assessable income is less than 60k baht. So if you only ever bring in money that is not assessable in Thailand then there should be no need to interact with the thai tax system in any way. That's where your accountant should be able to help you... in determining what is assessable and what is not
Richard *******
Good point. Some income might be taxable in your home country. Some might be entirely exempt. Would Thailand tax your tax-exempt superannuation income?
Roberto *********
@Richard ******
Superannuation is a pension which for most countries is taxable only in the country in which it is paid, so no you would not pay tax
Roberto *********
No you won't pay tax. But I wouldn't advise sending large sums of money to buy something you'll never own, however that's another story!
Keil ******
@Roberto ********
true he will loose the money and the land. In other people's land never build anything or else no land no money
Tom *********
This may help.

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Tom *********
@Jim *******
agreed.
Tom *********
@Jim *******
vague misinformation? It's definitely a click bait to a financial advisor, but has some good information directly attributed to the revenue department.
Jim ********
@Tom ********
Yes, but again it's trying to put fear into pensioners, implying that pensions will be taxed, and they won't be. The best information on the revenue department is from their own website
Jim ********
@Tom ********
Too much vague misinformation in this article. It's designed to tout for business. Best to ignore it
Rok ********
First question will be always whether you are a resident for tax purposes. If yes the second question will be whether you are taxed on worldwide or only thai-submitted income. And third question whether your country has a double taxation treaty with Thailand. Has anybody had a proper professional advice yet? When i had it in Indonesia the chap calculated the indonesian tax on worldwide income in line with the self assesment rules, personal allowances and tiered tax brackets as per indonesian tax law, deducted tax paid in UK as per my UK tax return and arrived at the additional tax due in Indonesia. Interestingly the tax liability difference was minimal but headache of the second tax residency can be huge. I decided the world is too big for me to create additional headaches for myself and will simply not stay in any country long enough to become a resident for tax purposes (which usually means more than 182 days in the fiscal year). PS: sending money to your wife is another matter itrelevant to you as it becomes her own tax affair and she may need tax advice.
John **********
It sounds like you are not resident in Thailand for tax purposes so you would not be liable to thai tax. How it would affect your wife's tax status I've no idea but there is such a thing as gift tax in Thailand
David *******
No
Arch *********
Y would u want too built ,these people are not tradesman one day they drv taxis nxt day they are cleaning roads huge risk 🤔
Ruth *******
This whole thing has been a mess. I would recommend doing exactly what I’m doing. I’ve decided to keep my stay under 6 months, at least this year. When you say you’re “sending” money to your wife, it sounds like you’re not currently here. It’s probably the easiest thing as we see how things play out.
Adrian *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
Ruth *******
@Adrian ********
you do you
Adrian *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Ruth ******
just saw it and thought I'd post it just incase anyone is reading.
Ruth *******
@Adrian ********
you can find websites with a differing opinion as well…hence the confusion here. 1) The screenshot is not a government source. 2) it’s a screenshot with no date nor a link to where one can check the date.

3) The government has changed its stance. It could change it again. Again, I’ll wait for things to get flushed out.

Beyond all of that, I’m not opening up my books and sending my SS#, which puts my financials significantly at risk if it gets into the wrong hands. I have my limits when there are so many other options available.

I don’t need help with my research. I don’t mean to be rude, but if you’re posting for others, please don’t tag me.
Bob **********
Adrian *********
ORIGINAL POSTER
@Ruth ******
not tagged anyone my friend just like everyone else in my position just trying to find out what the fuck is going on!
Jim ********
@Ruth ******
"Stupid comment of the day" award 🤣🤣🤣
Ruth *******
@Jim *******
thank you! Your opinion means so much to me. 🤣🤣🤣
Ang *****
@Jim *******
arrogant and rude!
Peter ********
Jim ********
@Peter *******
It says "the whole thing has been a mess". That's total bs. If the OP is so frightened (or perhaps has money hidden offshore) that he/she will leave the country, there's some pretty strange "voices in the head" material going on.
Peter ********
@Jim *******
You’re probably right. FB is so full of BS. I kind of turn off.
Jim ********
@Peter *******
Exactly. The rules pertaining to payment of taxes are quite straightforward, especially for retired expats, but FB and the constant barrage of ads from financial advisors trying to generate fear and touting for business has made people believe it's all very complex, which it isn't
Peter ********
@Jim *******
People have too much time on their hands I think! 555
Dennis **********
Hope she's Thai
Eric ***************
No, Thailand banking system has joined the rest of the world system. If it's been taxed once no issue
Jim ********
@Eric **************
Correct. Why do people have such difficulty understanding such a simple concept?
Peter ********
@Jim *******
because FB introduces you to people you’d never otherwise engage with. I wrote that carefully so that I didn’t get banned...
Joe *****
@Peter *******
🎯 X 💯 !
Jim ********
@Peter *******
Yep! You can say that again!
Eric ***************
@Peter *******
guys educate the uneducated
Jim ********
No you do not have to pay tax if you're transfering savings. Plenty of bs advice from idiots on the internet
Shane *******
@Jim *******
source for this? My impression was any cash you send to yourself (not thai person) is subject to the new tax unless it's already been taxed in your home country.
Jim ********
@Shane ******
So if you're hiding untaxed money in another country and you bring it to Thailand of course you pay tax on it. That's the same in just about every other country in the world (places like Cayman Islands and Bermuda may be different). I can't see how people struggle with this notion
Shane *******
@Jim *******
so a hypothetical, say I have a car back in sunny old england and I wanna sell it for £20k to my mate. He sends me the cash,I then wanna send that to myself in Thailand, is it taxable?
Chan *********
@Shane ******
yes, any source of income that is not taxed is taxable when you bring it in. If it is tracked, they will tax it. But if you have a treaty lets say from usa and you are from there then you get tax credit from your social security income only but any other cash other than that will be taxed. If you transfer it into your bank account then its tracked and taxes. You bring cash then no but guess what?? Usa is going digital, so now its making it hard to go elsewhere right? We are just slaves living day by day and its why they ate making mini cities to make us stay where we are in a bubble. See how all countries are working together to make it harder for us middle class and below in all countries. We cant hide.
Shane *******
@Jim *******
thoughts?? My worry was that literally ANY cash you send yourself from overseas is taxable unless you can specifically prove it has already been taxed
Jim ********
@Shane ******
Nope. Only income is taxed.
Trevor *********
@Jim *******
what about money from selling my house,do I need to pay tax on that pls ?
Jim ********
@Trevor ********
Is it income? The way I see it is it's liquidation of an asset. You own the asset, so you own the money, which become savings. Whatever the Facebook experts are saying, savings cannot be taxed
Trevor *********
@Jim *******
thank you and it’s my only home in England so not income.
Jim ********
Neil ********
No there is a back to back agreement with the UK. If you stay over 179 days then you will probably have to do a tax return. If it is money sent to your wife I doubt any issues as it’s not income.
Peter *********
If your transferring into her bank using wise no issues
Mary ********
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%20Period%20of%20New%20Thai,2%20of%20the%20Revenue%20Code.
Christopher *************
No , just crack on
Andrew ***********
Frank **********
This question is asked multiple times a day. Look at previous posts.
Bob **********
Nobody really knows anything yet
Jim ********
@Bob *********
People keep saying this, but I think it's pretty clear.
Bob **********
@Jim *******
yes I don’t see them having the staff to come after expats that bring in there pensions
Jim ********
@Bob *********
For most western countries pensions are not taxable in Thailand, so they'd be going after zero 🤣
Bob **********
@Jim *******
not at all the one thing that is clear is the law where you could earn all you wanted outside of Thailand and keep it out for one year and bring it in tax free this is who there looking at
Jim ********
@Bob *********
And that is the only thing which has changed, so I'd guess 99% of expats living in Thailand are completely unaffected. Hopefully they'll go after the digital nomads who live in Thailand on a variety of visas keeping their money offshore. Retirees not affected at all
Bob **********
@Jim *******
send me the link that clears it all up
Jim ********
@Bob *********
Clears WHAT up? What are you struggling with?
Bob **********
@Jim *******
nothing not worried about all this talk
Jim ********
@Bob *********
It's really comical how people are getting sucked into the bs being pedalled by Thai financial advisors touting for business. The ONLY change to the law does not affect expats, particularly retirees, and yet there's morons saying they'll only stay in the country 179 days so they don't "lose their pensions". Others are saying the tax department haven't yet announced how pensions will be affected by "the new laws" - here's a newsflash, they HAVE already announced it. One thing about Facebook - it's revealed just how many dumb, clueless people there are in the world!
Bob **********
@Jim *******
there the same tax laws as before if your country has a tax treaty with Thailand your cool
David *****
@Jim *******
I disagree. Until it is posted in the Royal Register, it's not official
Jim ********
@David ****
Posted last year ffs! 🤣
David *****
@Jim *******
and still you're arguing about it
Jim ********
David *****
@Jim *******
please post something original instead of reactions to get a rise out of people
Jim ********
@David ****
It's ok - you're not alone in the "stupid comments" enclosure with taxation in Thailand! 🤣🤣
David *****
@Jim *******
and you're not alone in being a troll
Jim ********
@David ****
Your opening comment was

Jim Howard I disagree. Until it is posted in the Royal Register, it's not official

It was posted
***
months ago, so your trolling started off with a lie! 🤣
David *****
@Jim *******
at least my picture is on my profile. Your last post was picking Cleese as your profile in 2019. Never original post. Well I'm done
Tony ********
@David ****
it was posted back in September 2023, and 1 amendmendant in November 2023 to exlude income earnt abroad before
***
/2024 so already in place.
David *****
@Tony *******
cool. And if there is a tax treaty with your home country then there's nothing to worry about
Chan *********
@David ****
that is not true
John **********
@David ****
that depends on the tax treaty, there's over 60 of them and they're all different. Some exclude pensions, some don't and so on. I think all of them operate on the credit basis though which means if you bring income into Thailand it's assessable for Thai tax and then you get a credit for tax paid in your home country
Jim ********
@John *********
Not all. Some countries such as Australia and USA, pensions are taxable ONLY in the country in which the pension is paid. Tax credits don't come into it. It's cut and dried
John **********
@Jim *******
I'm Scottish so not overly familiar with the treaties with Australia & USA but happy to accept your statement on pensions for those countries. It's not so clear cut with the UK where some pensions are covered in the same way and others including the state pension are not. That aside I am sure I am still correct in that if you bring income into Thailand, other than that specifically covered in the treaties, it is now taxable and you get a pro rata credit for tax already paid in your home country on such income. It's only cut and dried for some specific cases where you have no income you bring to Thailand outside of those cases.
Jim ********
@John *********
For Australian and US pensions they are specifically mentioned in the DTAs as being taxable only in the country in which they're paid. Very cut and dried. Tax credits don't even come into the equation.
John **********
@Jim *******
as long as they only bring in their pension income though
Jim ********
@John *********
That's what I'm talking about. I have a private pension fund which pays me a monthly amount far in excess of the 65k so I know I won't be paying any tax, and from advice received from Treasury via my lady, as I don't have any declarable income, I don't even have to file a tax return (although I do one in Australia as I'm still a tax resident there, and get income from property and shares)
John **********
@Jim *******
yep that's how it works *for you*. That's the point I'm trying, perhaps badly, to make. Every tax treaty is different and every person's situation is different. There is no one answer that fits everyone.
Jim ********
@John *********
I've only looked at the DTAs with Australia, NZ, Canada, US and Germany, and they're all virtually identical in that tax is payable only in the original country. I'm surprised if you say UK is different, but UK is quite well known for not looking after its pensioners! 🤣
John **********
@Jim *******
it sure is, goes out its way to abandon expat pensioners some would say. There are only 3 occurrences of the word pension in the UK agreement, if you have a pension for government services (civil servants, teachers etc) your good but nothing else. Unlike the Australian one it doesn't contain a section on Pensions & Annuities. Whether that's simply down to the UK one being a bit earlier who knows
Jim ********
@John *********
I do know that for most Countries if you leave the UK the pension is frozen with no annual CPI increases, which in my mind seems a little unfair. I don't know much about the UK system, but my understanding is that it's a contributory scheme whereby you pay a percentage of your salary into National Insurance which safeguards your age pension. It's not a government handout, it's actually something you contribute towards. I'm sure over the years, the percentage levy on your pay has increased, so using base logic, shouldn't a percentage increase when they are returning the money to you also apply? What difference does it make where you are living? I have friends in Australia who are also in this situation. To me it seems highly irregular to say the least
John **********
@Jim *******
yes, highly irregular indeed. They refuse to do anything about it and it varies by where you live. UK pensioners in Australia are affected as you say, also Thailand but those living in the Philippines are not. Those in Canada are affected but those in America are not. Very discriminatory.
Chris ****
@David ****
or you have a visa that explicitly states no tax on foreign income
Jim ********
@Chris ***
What visa is that?
Chris ****
@Jim *******
several. LTRs are tax free for 10 years.
Jim ********
@Chris ***
That also applies to overseas income?
Chris ****
@Jim *******
overseas yes. But like anyone you’d have to pay tax if you earned domestically .
Jim ********
@Chris ***
I think this thread is about transferring money into Thailand, not earning money in Thailand
Tony ********
@David ****
as long as you paid tax in your home country on the amount.
Glen ********
@Tony *******
my understanding is that you could still be taxed on the difference if the tax you paid back home is lower than the tax you would have paid on the same income in Thailand. But then again, I can't confirm 100%.
Jim ********
@Glen *******
That part of the tax law hasn't changed. It's been the same since the year dot
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