Do expats needing to file a tax return in Thailand after staying over 180 days annually?

@Dany *******

My bank has my Australian Tax File Number. I don't have a Thai Tax ID and I've signed a document to verify this.

@Roger *******

it won’t. Military will take over using Prayuth before Xmas is my prediction.

@Dany *******

not a serious suggestion.

@Pete ******

why? because you dont like such an easy approach? :) in other countries its common that a bank requires your tax id and if you dont give these information then your account gets locked.

@Dany *******

banks can already lock accounts if you fail to provide your tax residency status as its part of the AML/KYC requirements. Providing yearly tax documents is not feasible as many people simply do not generate them.

@Ian *********

you’re disagreeing with the Finance Minister not with me....

@Pete ******

Yes, sadly the UK is one of the leading western countries where the DTA does NOT protect pensions! USA, Canada, Australia all have protection!

@Pete ******

agreed. The UK-Thai dta apparently excludes UK pensions

@Roger *******

nope, only UK civil service pensions are exempt. Company, private and state pensions are all assessable for Thai tax when remitted.

Typically, now I go back to find what I read before, I cannot find it. Art. 19? Clear as mud.

@Roger *******

Any pension (governmental = civil service) paid by a contracting state (UK or Thailand).....shall only be taxable in that state.

Therefore UK civil service pensions cannot be taxed by Thailand.

@Pete ******

not what the UK website on the dta says, although l accept it is a little vague.

@Roger *******

The UK Thai DTA clearly states only civil service pensions are exempt. Under Article 19 Section 2 (a) the wording is quite explicit.

@Andy ***********

interesting advice

@Rok *******

Sadly so many people are being duped by online tax agents operating in Thailand. They should read the DTA relevant to their country

@Andy ***********

would it not be because the tax regulations affecting foreigners changed on 01.01.2024!!

@Ian *********

The change was actually a closing of a loophole, which "tax agents" in Thailand have jumped on and started fear-mongering amongst expats, in the pursuit of business. Sadly, many have been duped and subsequently scammed into handing over large sums of money unnecessarily

@Ian *********

Only changed from the point of view that money earned overseas could not be kept offshore for a year to avoid tax. So this doesn't apply to the average retiree who brings his money in as soon as it is paid in his home country. So in theory, this money should have been declared since the 1970's when the 180 day rule was introduced. However, Thailand Revenue never bothered, and still won't

@Andy ***********

so if I carry on working for my UK employer when I come to Thailand this November, to avoid remitting money into Thailand I was going to open a separate uk bank account. And the money would never be drawn out from an ATM in Thailand but only used for holidays when I go back to Europe twice per year.

In Thailand i would live off my savings and personal pension that i will have paid myself in November.

So would this sepate uk bank account be considered an offshore account?

To be honest, i don’t need to carry on working so could cut out any risk and quit in november.

@John ********

Are you getting DTV?

@Andy ***********

no, will do marriage visa

@John ********

I don't believe you can work on a non-O marriage visa unless you get a work permit

@Andy ***********

i was told by an agent in London who deals with the thai embassy in london on a regular basis that that was the advantage of a marriage visa. I was going to do the DTV and he was the one who mentioned it to me. I hear so many things Andy I never know for sure!!

I don’t believe I should make any statements unless I know the facts.

@Andy ***********

let's see what the near future brings. Enjoy your evening.

@Ian *********

We're over halfway through 2025 and I haven't heard even the slightest whisper of any expat being audited for tax. I'm confident that in another year I'll be saying the same thing! 👍👍

@Andy ***********

nothing is forever, I would expect H1-2025 would take up tax declarations, assessments, and reconciliation of income relating to year-2024, therefore there is ample time yet.

@Ian *********

There's been ample time since the 1980's when the 180 day rule was brought in. I won't hold my breath! 😂😂

@Ian *********

That's a personal choice. Some tax offices are more aware of the process and will not issue tax ID to those who are not required to submit a tax return at that office.

@Ian *********

exactly, it is dependent upon each person's situation, that's why your statement was incorrect, that's all. If you had of stated something like 'people staying 180 days or more WITH assessable income being remitted into Thailand are required to obtain a TIN and file', then yes you'd have been correct. The 180days means nothing if you're not also remitting ASSESSABLE INCOME during that year. The last sentence of your previous reply is even stranger that you'd try obtain a TIN and file a return even if you had no tax liability...why do you say that?

@True *****

read the complete thread and especially my first post. I am not incorrect in what I have posted!

@Ian *********

what consequences? And the law about registering is more than 40 years old. Most expats have never heard of it. They live in blissful ignorance.

@Roger *******

from 01.01.2024, and the chickens will come home to roost. It's every individuals responsibility to stay up todate with tax regulations and understand how it impacts them individually. Filing for tax each year and obtaining a TIN does not mean people have to pay tax - it depends on their personal circumstances. But, not filing, and not obtaining a TIN is a contravention of the tax law unless your visa exempts you.

@Ian *********

It's nothing to do with visa category. Only the LTR specifically excludes it, as this visa is designed for "wealthy foreigners". No chickens have come home to roost with me. I went to my local tax office and got it in writing. If I'd listened to that smarmy tax expert Carl Turner I'd have paid him 10,000 baht to get him to get me a tax ID and to then pay taxes. Fortunately, I was not sucked in like many have been. I got straight from the office who would audit me: No tax ID, no tax return. Nothing to do with visa, all to do with DTA! 👍👍

Things may change, certainly, but as yet there is little sign of it. Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of ex-pats remain ignorant.

@Roger *******

They've remained blissfully ignorant for about 30-40 years, and it'll stay that way

@Roberto ********

I wish I still was ;-)

I have been here 20 years and had not heard about the rule of registration until April this year. So I asked around. I even asked Grok.

@Ian *********

yup. I realize some offices are extemely knowledgeable and helpful. Some of them are the complete opposite. I may be wrong, but my impression is the offices that have a much lower expat population are more helpful (Issan). The ones with a huge expat population like Koh Samui seem to want to avoid all the extra work of thousands of more tax filings.

@Andy ***********

who said I pushed the issue? Nothing in my post says or even implies I "pushed" the issue. I simply went and asked about it and there were a couple of back and forth questions. Thats all, no pushing. I left and said thats good enough for me and didn't think twice about not filing. Sometimes I just can't figure out people's lack of reading comprehension skills.

@Wylie ******

You said you went to the tax office and they said you don't need to file, and then went on to say they don't know what they're doing. Does it matter? If they say you don't need a tax ID, that's the end of the story. I've lived in Thailand for 15 years and every one of those years I've been deemed a "Thai Tax Resident" and yet every one of those years I haven't needed to file a return, because, very simply, I have zero assessable income. I have it in writing so the "consequences" are a big fat zero. How easy is that?

@Andy ***********

Again, where did I say, or even imply, that I did not consider that the end of the story for me? I left the office and didn't think twice about it besides making a comment about my experience.

As for my comment that they don't know what they're doing, I stand by it. When multiple offices are giving contradictory and conflicting information, it's clear that communication, understanding or interpretation of the law, and enforcement are not well-coordinated. I think that's a strong indication that they don't know what they're doing. If you have a different opinion that's great. I stand by mine.

As for you not having assessable income and not needing to file, that is irrelevant to any of the issues that you're trying to raise with my comments, and unrelated to any comment I made.

@Wylie ******

Except you're misguided by your belief that as you bring money into Thailand and live here for 180 days you are required to submit a tax return, which you're not necessarily required to do. Your tax office tells you no, but you still don't quite believe them

@Andy ***********

Again. Where did I say that one needs to file if one "brings money" into thailand? I said I told immigration "because I remit INCOME into thailand". And I never said whether or not that income was assessable. You just assumed it was not, along with assuming what I believe and do not believe.

You really do need to brush up on reading comprehension and just stop trying to find any little thing you can to pick apart about anything I said. You're not good at it.

@Wylie ******

Actually your narrative is not easy to follow. Money has to be brought into Thailand to be "remitted income" so it's difficult to understand what point you're trying to make

@Roberto ********

I literally say I "remit income into Thialand" in my very first comment. That makes it pretty clear that it is income and not savings, and that I brought that money into thailand. Seriously, how much more clearer can that possibly be?

@Wylie ******

Except all remittances into Thailand are deemed as income until shown otherwise. Your comments in this thread are somewhat vague, so I can see how others are misinterpreting what you are saying

@Roberto ********

and how exactly does one show otherwise? There was nothing vague about it. I said I remitted INCOME into thailand, not that I remitted money into thailand that is considered income until proven otherwise. One could simply trust that I know what is and isn't income instead of making the assumption that I don't. Especially when it doesn't change the point I was making in any way, since the tax department never even asked any details of how much money I brought in or where it came from. I could've brought in 20 million baht of income that needed to be taxed, but they didn't ask or care.

I didn't realize I needed to give the specific details of every single penny I brought into thailand. You want more details than the tax department did, which kind of proves the point of my original post.

First you say I didn't say something, and after clearly reminding you that I said EXACTLY what you said I didn't say, you then try and pick apart some other small nonsense detail. Rather than be an adult and say "oh, I completely missed that". Seriously, you two are a bunch of clowns that don't know when to stop when your behind.

@Wylie ******

It's little wonder the tax office showed you the door! You make absolutely zero sense! You want to see a clown. Go look in the mirror! 🤡🤡🤡. Oh and it's "you're" not "your" but you obviously escaped a proper education!! 😂😂

@Roberto ********

haha. Reading comprehension really isn't your guys strong suit is it. Next time I'll run it through chatGPT and have it rewrite my comment at a 2nd grade reading level for you.

You felt the need to chime in and say my original comment was hard to follow because I specifically didnt say something. Then when I pointed out that I did in fact say EXACTLY what you claimed I didn't, you needed to clarify. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Just like the other clown you assume nonsense, like they "showed me the door". It was a very simple and civil 2 minute conversation with a couple of back and forth questions. After which I said thank you and left. But that's me being shown the door in your world.🤣🤣🤣

Now all you have to fall back on is a simple missed "you're vs your". I'm sure glad to know there's people out there that are perfect and never ever miss a spelling or grammatical error like yourself.

Pathetic. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

@Wylie ******

And the civilised conversation led to you posting on Facebook that the tax office is "clueless"? With your long-winded ambiguous crap it's little wonder! 😂😂

@Roberto ********

Haha, this is where reading comprehension comes in handy. I said they are either clueless OR doing it on purpose to minimize their workload.

Tell me, since you're the tax expert, does someone automatically get out of filing or owing taxes simply because they don't have a work permit? Because that's exactly what they told me. They never asked how much money I brought into Thailand, the source of that money, or any other relevant questions. All they cared about was whether I had a work permit and whether I worked inside Thailand. Are you going claim that's correct just so you can keep arguing? Because it's not. So they either don't know their own tax laws OR are intentionally misleading people to avoid doing extra work. What exactly is it if it isn't one of those two things? My statement stands and is correct. Whose the village idiot now.🤣🤣🤣

Seriously, you don't know how to stop when YOU'RE behind. Why don't you go back and find some other spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors. At least you got that one right.🤣

@Wylie ******

When I went to the tax office I guess I went better prepared than you. I took my Certificate Of Tax Residency from Australia and my Australian Pension Statement. That was enough to be told that I don't need to submit a tax return in Thailand as my tax residency is Australia. They subsequently sent me a letter to this effect. Very simple and they knew what they were doing (and if they got it wrong, who am I to post on Facebook claiming they don't know what they're doing?). How easy is that? And you're saying it's ME who lacks comprehension skills? 😂😂

@Roberto ********

So you’re refusing to answer my question: does not having a work permit automatically mean someone doesn’t have to file taxes? You know I’m right, which is why you’re dodging it. And who said I wasn’t prepared with my documents? You keep assuming sh*t. I had far more than you did.

Again, reading comprehension is useful. I CLEARLY said they didn’t ask me a single question about anything. Nothing about tax residency, how much money I brought in, the source of that money, nothing. None of the questions that the office you went to asked you. As soon as I said I didn’t have a work permit, they didn’t care about anything else. The fact that the office you went to may have known what they were doing has absolutely no bearing on whether the office I went to did. The numerous reports of conflicting information being given by different offices only confirm what I said. Yet you're here acting like all offices within a government agency are 100% aligned with the actual rules as if its you're first time in Thailand.

Now you bring up your experience, which you hadn’t mentioned before, and act like that somehow proves I lack reading comprehension. 🤣🤣🤣

I accept their answer because it's the office I would be filing at. I didn't push anything, I wasn't "shown the door". That doesn’t mean it's the correct answer, nor does it mean I can’t comment on my experience — specifically, that not all offices are the same and that some either don’t know the rules or don’t want to deal with the additional workload.

Seriously, just stop dude. You’re embarrassing yourself. Every time I shoot down the criticism you're trying to make you come up with some new nonsense.

@Wylie ******

When I went to the tax office, I'd already read the tax code and the DTA, something which you obviously didn't do. Sometimes we have to take a little responsibility for our own destiny. As the tax office were familiarised with my situation, they were able to give me the correct answers, and were prepared to put this in writing. You went the complete wrong way about it and requested a tax ID before you'd even ascertained if you had assessable income. It's people like you who make money for the "Tax Advisors" out there touting for your business (because they don't get a single baht out of me!)

@Roberto ********

Haha. So you still refuse to answer the question? And once again, you assume I didn’t read the tax code or the DTA or come prepared, which I absolutely did. But it’s “obvious” to you that I didn’t, based on what exactly? That I was prepared enough to know they gave me the wrong answer?

Show me, on the Thai Revenue Department’s own document, where it says that someone doesn’t need a tax number or doesn’t need to file simply because they don’t have a work permit:



You won’t find it, because a work permit is absolutely not the deciding factor in whether someone needs a tax number or needs to file.

As for DTAs and avoiding double taxation, that’s claimed as a credit. Tell me, how does one claim a credit if they don't file? That’s clearly stated at the end of the document. But maybe you won't understand that based on your stellar display of comprehension.

You, like them, have no idea what my financial situation is, which I was fully prepared to show them. Even if I hadn’t been prepared, how does asking for a tax number first make them correct in claiming I don’t need one or don’t need to file? How would they know, when they didn’t ask a single question beyond whether or not I had a work permit? I could have brought in 20 million baht that’s tax-assessable, and they didn’t care. Either they didn’t know their own tax code, or they were intentionally avoiding the work. Which was my original point that you are absolutely refusing to acknowledge.

Why is it so hard for you to get that through your thick skull and accept that a government employee in Thailand might not be fully up to speed on their own tax regulations? Despite numerous reports of conflicting advice given by different offices.

JFC, you’re just grasping at anything you can, making ridiculous assumptions and arguments just to keep arguing. You’re an absolute clown. I can't wait to see what you'll come up with next. Or perhaps you finally decide to stop arguing a losing point.

@Wylie ******

You keep pushing the work permit line. Work permit has nothing to do with taxation. I never said that. I was amused that you went totally unprepared to the tax office to make enquiries and when they showed you the door, you went into meltdown

@Roberto ********

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Well, this has been mildly entertaining, but I’ve reached my daily limit for ignorance and nonsense. Have a lovely day.

@Wylie ******

You too. Try not to get too upset because you couldn't get your Tax ID.

@Wylie ******

I think you're struggling with comprehension! "Remit income" is actually bringing money into Thailand 😂

@Andy ***********

🤣🤣🤣 does that change the fact that I NEVER said anything remotely close to bringing money, or income into thailand automatically meant it was assessable and a person needed to file? You assumed my income wasn't assesable and then felt the need to twist my words into something I did not say just so you could correct it. After I shot you down on your other criticisms of my comments. You just keep searching for anything, even if you have to make it up.

@Wylie ******

Now you're ranting! Good luck with your remitted income which you didn't bring into Thailand! 👍👍

@Elías *******

Credit Cards usage is deemed as a "remittance" by the tax office, the same as ATM withdrawals

@Roberto ********

absolutely NOT

@Elías *******

You'd better do your research! 😂😂😂

@Roberto ********

I don't care what that website might say. Only what the law says matter. And no, paying by card t's not considered a remittance (cash withdrawals might be, tho).

@Elías *******

I think you need to brush up on your knowledge. Whatever makes you think credit card purchases do not represent remittances? You are still bringing in money from overseas to pay for goods or services.

@Elías *******

Credit Card usage in Thailand is most certainly a remittance. But you are free to kid yourself otherwise. Show me the law that says credit card purchases are not considered remittances!

@Roberto ********

….and whether it’s deemed as assessable income or not is another story.

@Craig ********

ATM withdrawals and credit card purchases are deemed as "remittances" - whether they are taxed or not is another matter, as that depends on individual circumstances

@Roberto ********

thank you. You are very correct and if that “remittance” is taxed depends on the individuals situation. Simply saying ATM withdrawals is taxable in Thailand is plain stupid.

@Craig ********

Saying anything in Thailand is taxable is INCREDIBLY STUPID, but so many idiots think one size fits all. Everybody's situation is different and every DTA is different.

@Craig ********

you should read what the Thai government considers income before you respond. And what the last 2 years of Thai tax discussions have been about! It’s a whole lot different than the western world.

@Michael ************

Assessable Income: Any earned income that is eligible for taxation such as salary, dividends, or rental property income. Once your total assessable income is calculated, the amount of payable tax you owe will be determined by your net income according to the tax bracket. Income that is not assessable does not contribute to your total and does not affect your tax bracket.

Money taken from an ATM is not necessarily income sir. Maybe you should read what I said and do a little research yourself.

@Jason *********

i hope you can proof that that specific €$£ wasnt earned in that year ;)

anyway i am pretty sure that you have to file tax no matter what. even if the result is zero. the DTA will just determine where and how much tax you pay. not where you put in your (additional) documents.

@Dany *******

If your assessable income is below the taxpaying threshold there is no requirement to submit a tax return