Answered5 months ago
Is day trading considered a job under the Thai Retirement Visa rules?
Hi, guys!!I am an European over 50 thinking to get the Visa Retirement but have some doubts about that.
If you day trade US stocks with your own funds for yourself being your only source of income, Does the Government consider this activity as your “regular job" and would therefore be incompatible with this type of visa?
I guess there are many people trading crypto or stocks as only source of income and don’t know exactly how they manage it and under what visa stay in the country doing this activity.
I assume if is considered “as work” => you are taxed as Personal Income Tax => you could have problems with the Visa retirement that is much more easier to get than the DTV… and if is not considered “as work” => you can do that activity with no problemas and your income is not being taxed until you send to Thailand. I don’t know if now since 2024 no matter when you send it, that income is taxed as well and at what rate %.
If anyone that has faced this situation can tell me how it actually works, would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
If you day trade US stocks with your own funds for yourself being your only source of income, Does the Government consider this activity as your “regular job" and would therefore be incompatible with this type of visa?
I guess there are many people trading crypto or stocks as only source of income and don’t know exactly how they manage it and under what visa stay in the country doing this activity.
I assume if is considered “as work” => you are taxed as Personal Income Tax => you could have problems with the Visa retirement that is much more easier to get than the DTV… and if is not considered “as work” => you can do that activity with no problemas and your income is not being taxed until you send to Thailand. I don’t know if now since 2024 no matter when you send it, that income is taxed as well and at what rate %.
If anyone that has faced this situation can tell me how it actually works, would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
Answer summary
A European over 50 is considering the Thai Retirement Visa and is concerned about whether day trading U.S. stocks qualifies as work, potentially conflicting with the visa's requirements. Various community members share conflicting advice: some believe that active trading constitutes 'work' despite it being personal wealth management, suggesting caution and possibly opting for a Long-Term Resident Visa (LTR). Others argue that if trading is for personal income and not done for clients in Thailand, it may not be considered work and therefore not affect visa status. The implications of income tax for this trading activity are also discussed, including the potential applicability of Thailand's tax laws and international tax agreements.
36 repliesnewest first
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Christoph **************
If you just trade for yourself and online somewhere outside Thailand, in first place nobody would know and in second place your home country probably has a DTA with Thailand which stipulates where taxes need to be paid for what. If you want to be 100% sure not to be taxed on any kind of foreign income, get an LTV!
Neridyan *******
OPChristoph J. Stoecker Thanks for the answer. No, the idea is trading actively from Thailand and become fiscal resident there. My main doubts is if the Retirement Visa is compatible with that trading activity and if there is no problem, at what % rate income will be taxed.
Night *******
No, that is not a job. You need 800K baht to get a Non-O visa, which you can extend for one year if you show 800K baht in a Thai bank.
Dany *********
I'm basically in the same situation, day trader, and also have monthly dividends from a crypto investment project. But the crypto doesn't go to a "standard bank account" but is transferred every month into a prepaid credit card, so would that qualify it for the minimum per month threshold for the Retirement Visa I think it's O-A instead of putting 800k? Planning the move for October so trying to find answers. Example, my crypto brings in let's say 10k per month, would that qualify even if it's not transferred to a real bank but stays within the crypto ecosystem, I have access to it immediately worldwide. Tks for the input
Alan **********
Dany Leclerc AIui, the monthly income method, AFTER a full year of 800K Baht being IN a Thai bank, has to be from a reliable source, as in U.S. Social Security payments, and the amount is guaranteed monthly for life.
Simon *******
Dany Leclerc O-A need police checks and health insurance from a supplier that is recommended by the Thai government.
Pontus ****
Just put the 800k in a bank account and do your trading as a hobby. No need to overthink it
Greg ***********
You are overthinking it.
*** apply for the 90-days Non-Imm-O over50/retirement Visa in your home country, with three months of bank account statements of a minimum of 22.600.- Euro / equivalent of 800,000 THB in your bank account
*** arrive in Thailand, get stamped in for a 90-days stay permit, and get a bank account opened ASAP.
*** transfer a minimum of 800,000 THB into it
*** as soon as the money has been in the account for two months but before the 90-days stay permit expires, apply for the 1-year extension of the stay permit
*** 11 months later, apply for the next 1-year extension of stay
*** nobody will ask you about your source of income, when you do the financial proof on Immigration with the 800,000 THB bank deposit
*** apply for the 90-days Non-Imm-O over50/retirement Visa in your home country, with three months of bank account statements of a minimum of 22.600.- Euro / equivalent of 800,000 THB in your bank account
*** arrive in Thailand, get stamped in for a 90-days stay permit, and get a bank account opened ASAP.
*** transfer a minimum of 800,000 THB into it
*** as soon as the money has been in the account for two months but before the 90-days stay permit expires, apply for the 1-year extension of the stay permit
*** 11 months later, apply for the next 1-year extension of stay
*** nobody will ask you about your source of income, when you do the financial proof on Immigration with the 800,000 THB bank deposit
Neridyan *******
OPGreg Alexander No, I am not overthinking it, because after consulting several local advisors, I've received conflicting answers:
More conservative option (one advisor): This advisor interprets active trading, even with your own funds from your computer and for a foreign broker, as falling under the broad definition of "work" or "investment management" because it involves continuous activity, decision-making, and profit-seeking. The risk, though low, is that an immigration officer might consider you to be practicing a profession and violating the terms of your visa. This advisor recommends, for complete protection, a Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa but I don't qualify for it.
More flexible option (the second advisor): This advisor maintains that the activity of a retail investor using their own funds from a personal account abroad to buy and sell assets in a foreign market is, in practice, considered personal wealth management. Since there's no employment relationship, no external client, and no physical office in Thailand, the risk is minimal, and immigration authorities don't usually pursue it, as long as it doesn't become a source of public revenue or a business. In fact, this advisor compares it to deciding which stocks to buy on your online bank: it's a matter of financial management, not employment.
That's why I'd like to hear firsthand from someone who is or has been in the same situation to learn about their experience.
More conservative option (one advisor): This advisor interprets active trading, even with your own funds from your computer and for a foreign broker, as falling under the broad definition of "work" or "investment management" because it involves continuous activity, decision-making, and profit-seeking. The risk, though low, is that an immigration officer might consider you to be practicing a profession and violating the terms of your visa. This advisor recommends, for complete protection, a Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa but I don't qualify for it.
More flexible option (the second advisor): This advisor maintains that the activity of a retail investor using their own funds from a personal account abroad to buy and sell assets in a foreign market is, in practice, considered personal wealth management. Since there's no employment relationship, no external client, and no physical office in Thailand, the risk is minimal, and immigration authorities don't usually pursue it, as long as it doesn't become a source of public revenue or a business. In fact, this advisor compares it to deciding which stocks to buy on your online bank: it's a matter of financial management, not employment.
That's why I'd like to hear firsthand from someone who is or has been in the same situation to learn about their experience.
Victor **********
Neridyan Sheik Your second advisor is correct. As for the purpose of a tax resident (living in Thailand for 180+ days), you should contact a professional tax lawyer in Thailand. Your remittance of crypto gains from foreign brokerages are subject to taxes. Dividends may be subject to taxes, if not remitted within the "Two-Year" exemption window. It's not protected under the Double Tax Treaty (i.e. Social Security). You could, however, reduce those taxes via the Foreign Tax Credit.
Christoph **************
Neridyan Sheik The more advisors you ask, the more opinions you’ll get. Just use your common sense 💡
Greg ***********
Neridyan Sheik then go for the DTV, it allows remote work
Alan **********
Charles Hallam Although it doesn't mention making sure, if one takes out some of the funds, the 800K has to be in the account AGAIN for 2(?) months before getting the next 1-year extension. Not so ?
Greg ***********
Charles Hallam Myself I NEVER touch these minimum 800,000 THB. I just leave them parked all year round
Greg ***********
Alan Rothwell I don't care. Everything in Thailand costs far less than half of the prices in my home country, I save a lot more than these 40,000 THB and I live rent-free. Futhermore, in my home country these 22.000.- Euro would earn 2.9% interest at best, that will never be 40,000 THB, rather 24,000 THB. It's just not worth while to think about it
Alan **********
Greg Alexander And the 40K Baht you might have earned on the 800K elsewhere/back home is just a cost of retiring in Thailand, yes ?
Greg ***********
Charles Hallam that comes after you have been issued the 1-year extension. And I also forgot to mention that you must do the 90-days reporting. And I forgot to mention that you should take two showers daily. I reckon I forgot a lot
Neridyan *******
OPThe problem is that after consulting several local advisors, I've received conflicting answers:
More conservative option (one advisor): This advisor interprets active trading, even with your own funds from your computer and for a foreign broker, as falling under the broad definition of "work" or "investment management" because it involves continuous activity, decision-making, and profit-seeking. The risk, though low, is that an immigration officer might consider you to be practicing a profession and violating the terms of your visa. This advisor recommends, for complete protection, a Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa.
More flexible option (the second advisor): This advisor maintains that the activity of a retail investor using their own funds from a personal account abroad to buy and sell assets in a foreign market is, in practice, considered personal wealth management. Since there's no employment relationship, no external client, and no physical office in Thailand, the risk is minimal, and immigration authorities don't usually pursue it, as long as it doesn't become a source of public revenue or a business. In fact, this advisor compares it to deciding which stocks to buy on your online bank: it's a matter of financial management, not employment.
That's why I'd like to hear from someone who is or has been in the same situation to know from first hand how is managing it.
More conservative option (one advisor): This advisor interprets active trading, even with your own funds from your computer and for a foreign broker, as falling under the broad definition of "work" or "investment management" because it involves continuous activity, decision-making, and profit-seeking. The risk, though low, is that an immigration officer might consider you to be practicing a profession and violating the terms of your visa. This advisor recommends, for complete protection, a Long-Term Resident (LTR) visa.
More flexible option (the second advisor): This advisor maintains that the activity of a retail investor using their own funds from a personal account abroad to buy and sell assets in a foreign market is, in practice, considered personal wealth management. Since there's no employment relationship, no external client, and no physical office in Thailand, the risk is minimal, and immigration authorities don't usually pursue it, as long as it doesn't become a source of public revenue or a business. In fact, this advisor compares it to deciding which stocks to buy on your online bank: it's a matter of financial management, not employment.
That's why I'd like to hear from someone who is or has been in the same situation to know from first hand how is managing it.
John **********
@Neridyan ******
You mention 2 things1. For a foreign broker
If you actually mean you are trading on behalf of a foreign broker then you are working for that broker, but if you are simply using a broker account to do your own personal trading you are not.
2. Financial management
If you are operating entirely on your own behalf with only your own money it's not a lot different to moving money around bank accounts to get the best interest rate. I'd suggest it probably depends on the frequency of your trades, if you are buying and selling every day it's more like work, but if the majority of days you are just monitoring your investments waiting for a buy or sell opportunity then that would not seem like work, more personal financial management
Neridyan *******
OPThanks for the answer,
@John *********
. It would be active intraday trading with my own funds for myself. If is consider as a regular job, it conflicts with the Retirement Visa, which does not allow work. Maybe the DTV could be a solution because I don't qualify for the LTR.Neridyan *******
OPAlan Rothwell You are certainly right, even if the Visa Retirement is compatible with the trading activity is uncertain to some tax local advisors. Some say you have risk, low risk but at risk, others say that trading activity is considered personal wealth management and is not considered as job. No problem with paying taxes in Thailand and I understand will fall under P.I.T.(Personal Income Tax) 5%-35% tax rfates.
Alan **********
Neridyan Sheik The answer is, nobody really knows about rates OR what funds you'll pay tax on. The arguments have been going on for years.
The dual tax agreement, basically says, if you paid (enough ?) tax elsewhere, you won't have to pay taxes on THAT amount of income "here". But the definition of income, at least for Thai tax purposes, is really unclear.
Only a THAI tax attorney(?) can straighten that out for you.
The dual tax agreement, basically says, if you paid (enough ?) tax elsewhere, you won't have to pay taxes on THAT amount of income "here". But the definition of income, at least for Thai tax purposes, is really unclear.
Only a THAI tax attorney(?) can straighten that out for you.
John **********
@Neridyan ******
unless you work inside Thailand which you won't only income remitted to Thailand is taxable in Thailand and if you pay tax in your home country and it has a dual tax agreement with Thailand you can claim a credit for any tax already paid on the money so you don't get taxed twice. Easier for you to Google thai tax ratesNeridyan *******
OP@John *********
So in your opinion the Retirement Visa could work as well but and would not fall under the Personal Income Tax but at what % rate would be taxed that income?John **********
@Neridyan ******
it certainly wouldn't be considered a regular job, but yes the DTV could work if you can prove your trading and that you pay tax on the trading
Simon *********
Was under the impression that any money moved into Thailand that was earned the previous year was exempt from tax.
BC ********
Simon Patrick No. Used to be that way until a few years ago.
Michael ********
Lots of people do and lots of people dont tell the world
Annie *******
If it's strictly for your own income, it's not "work". If you do it for somebody else (manage portfolios), you can't. If you reside in Thailand for more than 180 days in a fiscal year your income becomes taxable as per thai laws.
Alan **********
Annie Denis Slight correction, "you are subject to Thai income tax laws". 😉
Bill *********
Annie Denis Not necessarily, if that income was made in your home country and is taxed in your home country (presuming a dual tax treaty) then it's not taxed again in Thailand.
Matthias **********
If you have 800,000 Baht in your Thai bank account nobody will ask for your stock trading income.
Graham ******
It's called a retirement visa but the qualification is being over 50, it does not matter where your income comes from (al nearly all Embassies)
Alan **********
Graham Seal IF he deposits 800K Baht. If he will eventually use the per-month method, that must come from a source that can NOT be halted, yes ?
Graham ******
Alan Rothwell The switch to the 65k international transfers can be used from the second extension onwards, 65k per month every month. What do you mean cannot be halted?
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