Where should I register as a tax resident in Bangkok with a DTV visa?

@Steve *******

what you don’t understand is whatever you spend / withdraw is accountable as revenue that you bring to Thailand. Keep doing as you think, and wait for bank to ask for your tax payer number

@Romain ***

My Thai bank already has my Australian TFN and has me noted as Australian Tax Resident, so I don't require a Thai Tax ID. Further, I only remit pension payments from Australia which are not taxable in Thailand.

@Steve *******

you seam to be very stubborn even after providing you official documentation proving you wrong, so… do as you wish dude 🤣

@Romain ***

I most certainly will do as the law prescribes I will do. You've provided me nothing which states I must obtain a Tax ID number. I haven't needed one in the last 25 years so I'm not going to be herded like a sheep as you have done! 😂👍

@Steve *******

ok boomer

@Romain ***

Boomers are the greatest ever generation in history. We have over 50% of the world's wealth! And we ain't giving any of it to Thailand! 👍😂

@Steve *******

and he’s proud of being a jerk. Thanks god officials are checking those groups and will see your full name and have fun with it 🤣

@Romain ***

Yes of course 😂😂😂😂😂

@Steve *******

DTA doesn't prevent you paying taxes in Thailand. It prevents double taxation. You still pay up the difference

@Marco ******

Oh Geez! So you transfer money which has been taxed at the highest level in your own country, so there's zero difference.

@Steve *******

I transfer money which has been taxed at 15% into a country that taxes the same amount at 25%, so I am obligated to pay up the difference which is 10%. its not that difficult to understand

@Marco ******

If you're happy doing that, it's great for you. Australia has different tax brackets. As you can see from the attachment taxable income up to $ is tax free, between $ - $ is 16%, and over $ is 30%. In this case I would only bring money into Thailand which has been taxed at 30%. Got it now? So I pay zero tax in Thailand. It's not that difficult to understand.

@Steve *******

I don't know what your replying to here as I can't see the original from Marco Hefti but you can't split it up like that. If you pay tax in Australia based on tax brackets the tax you pay is taken overall so if you have income of $100,000 you will pay tax of $4,288 + $16,500 = $20,788. If out of that $100,000 income you bring $50,000 into Thailand you get a tax credit you can claim which is pro rata to the tax paid in Australia so your tax credit would be $10,394.

@John *********

It depends on how much tax you've paid on the money which is remitted. You can try to complicate it as much as you like, but it's a lot simpler than that. If I remit only pension funds I pay nothing.

@Steve *******

your country having a DTA doesn't mean you have no assessable income

@John *********

If you retain dual tax residency you can use the DTA loophole to avoid taxation in Thailand. No assessable income means no tax ID required

@Steve *******

that appears to be possible for you Ozzies but for many that is not doable

@John *********

Not only Australia, many countries have DTAs with Thailand. Simply retain tax residency in your home country

@Steve *******

that's my point, it's not easy for most of us to retain tax residency in a country we haven't lived in for some years. Also how does one get round the "habitual abode" clause unless you maintain a permanent home in Australia and don't maintain a permanent home in Thailand? Pretty difficult if you live full time in Thailand.

@John *********

I have a permanent home in Australia. I own it, I'm registered on the electoral roll, my driver's licence is registered there, five bank accounts, five credit cards, two mortgages on other properties all registered to my permanent home. In Thailand I have a 12-month lease, a temporary extension of stay and a bank account - nothing else. You think a 12-month lease is "permanent"? 😆

@Steve *******

I don't think it works that way. If you have a home in Thailand and you normally live in it then it's your habitual abode. It doesn't matter if you own it or rent. The rest is immaterial

@John *********

Once again you're wrong. Like a lot of people on Facebook you make up your own wording instead of sticking to the official documents. Probably to suit your own agenda? Read the process of how tax residency is determined. To me it says "permanent home", to you it says "habitual abode" 😆

@Steve *******

it's a step process. You work through them one by one. If you pass one you can stop. What it comes down to are the legal definitions at each stage, so what is the legal definition of permanent home? I suspect it's not what you hope it is. I have no agenda whatsoever, I just don't like to see people being fed potentially misleading information

@John *********

Here's the definition. And it is what it is, it's not what I'm "hoping" - that's just you spreading your bs again! 😆

@Steve *******

I don't know where that comes from but it makes my point. A 12 month lease is not a short duration. Therefore you move on to the next step which is "habitual abode" and if you live in Thailand then Thailand is your habitual abode.

@John *********

Incidentally my 12-month lease in Thailand is in my lady's name, so in theory, I have no official home in Thailand, although in practice I pay the rent, but that's irrelevant.

@Steve *******

you really are playing with semantics. I suggest you go and get some proper advice

@John *********

what is proper advise. A Thai tax agent will only take money advise will be biased. As l have said before first port of call is your own country's tax commission which in Australia is ATO. Steve is fully correct in everything he has said in relation to Australian residents and tax obligations. Unless you are an authority on this Thai and Australian tax

@David *******

He's really got zero idea. He's one of these unfortunate poms who got little protection from their DTA. He makes wild statements without providing any references. Anything I assert in this group is backed up with official references, such as the DTA, TR and the ATO. I refuse point blank to go to a "tax advisor" - they're hungry for money, touting for business and causing a lot of unrest in the expat community

@John *********

It's your inability to understand plain English, and you love to play around with words and add your own conditions. I'm like thousands of other expats who are going to do nothing and see what happens, and you seem to be the only person who is frightened. This is Thailand. No-one gives a sh*t! 😆👍

@Steve *******

I'm not frightened in the slightest. I just prefer to know where I stand and take steps to remain legal. You just keep your head in the sand if that's what you want to do

@John *********

It sounds like you have your head in the sand as it appears you have little financial nous and are more than happy to pay tax when it's not necessary. That's your choice but you shouldn't be advising smarter people who have legal tax avoidance strategies

@Steve *******

🤣🤣🤣

@John *********

Good answer. No more of your bs 😂😂😂😂

@Steve *******

laughable

@John *********

You most certainly are! 😂😂😂

@John *********

You've missed the "permanent home", that's item (a) in the DTA. The only country I have a permanent home is Australia, so there's no need to go any further, but if you did and went to (c) the trump card is the "economic ties" but you dismiss a property portfolio, superannuation fund, five bank accounts, credit cards etc etc as "irrelevant" focusing instead on my 12-month lease and temporary extension of stay! 😂😂

@Steve *******

I think you'll find that legally you have a permanent home in both locations, which is why you need to go on to the next step of "habitual abode" and if you meet that you stop there, you don't go on to "economic ties". These are not multiple options, they're steps you work through and you stop at the first one you meet the criteria of.

@John *********

A 12-month lease is most certainly temporary if compared to an alternative accommodation, which is what the DTA is all about. "Habitual Abode" is open to different interpretations. This is an excerpt from a court ruling in Australia which found that although three persons were in Australia for more than 183 days the fact they were only in Australia "temporarily" meant their habitual abode was still in the UK. It seems you live your whole life in Thailand so you are unable to establish your abode anywhere else, but please do allow others who travel frequently and maintain strong ties with their home country to be able to show their Tax Residency as outside of Thailand. I've been in business my whole life and I know the all the tricks of taxation. As soon as one loophole disappears, another appears. You'll find that hardly any retirees will be filing tax returns in Thailand. It's highly unlikely any will be followed up, but if you're so anxious about paying tax you can do so

@Andy ***********

I think you'll find that it is not temporary in law

@John *********

"You think" - that's a good basis for interpretation. I think otherwise. And so does the Australian Tax Office.

@Andy ***********

who cares what the Australian tax office says. It's what the thai tax office says that's material.

@John *********

I know you're struggling trying to make yourself out to be the tree of knowledge in this subject, but sticking your nose into other countries' agreements is working against you. You say "who cares what the ATO says" without even realising the ATO is 50% "partner" of the relevant DTA. The DTA is what determined exactly what is what. The ATO has determined a person can have more than one "habitual abode" and that it is not based on any length of time spent at the relevant address. Try to either (1) do better research, or (2) keep your nose out of things you don't understand.

@Andy ***********

actually the ATO may have had something to do with the drafting but the 50% partners are the Kingdom of Thailand and Australia not their respective tax offices. It was signed by the Australian prime minister. As the text you shared says it is perfectly possible to have 2 of more habitual abodes but for this to be the case you must actually habitually use them.

@John *********

You talk to people like they are idiots. The PM did sign the DTA, but the input to the DTA was from the ATO as it was from TR, so advice from the ATO is correct, although you believe you know better. You know NOTHING about the Australian DTA, so why don't you just STFU?

@Andy ***********

rude. I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are yours. I have a problem with you people using sweeping statements that you have no idea if they apply to everyone or not. You pick what you want out of the DTA to suit your personal situation rather than the actuality. It will be interesting to see what the Thai Revenue Department make of it if they come knocking on your door, as far as Thai tax is concerned they are the only authority.

@John *********

Being a know-it-all again. You're the one making the sweeping statements. Whether you like it or not, Thailand Revenue must abide by the DTA, but you think your interpretation is correct, and it's far from it. I only quote from the Australian DTA. You think Thai tax "advisors" are the ultimate authority, but they're not. The ATO is the contact for Australians querying the DTA, not your precious tax advisors. No-one from Thailand Revenue is going to come knocking anywhere. This is Thailand. Law enforcement is non-existent, and you know that, they can't even get their own citizens to pay tax! 😂

@Andy ***********

thai revenue will go with their interpretation of the DTA. No idea how disputes over the DTA are handled and I've not mentioned thai tax advisers once in this thread as far as I remember

@John *********

Thai Revenue will follow the DTA which is very clear. There's no dispute. And yes, you said it, you have NO IDEA. Thank you for confirming what I've said all along. 👍👍😂

@John *********

It's the same. It's the DTA.

A = Agreement

Agreement definition in this case

"a negotiated and typically legally binding arrangement between parties as to a course of action"

@John *********

Which is (a) in my case. I don't have a home in Thailand which is permanent. I have a ruling from the ATO which determined my home in Australia is my principal place of residence. This is for CGT purposes, as principal place of residence is CGT-free. I also have a Certificate of Tax Residency from Australia, which I'm advised (by the ATO) to submit to the Thailand Revenue in the event they request it in lieu of a tax return. These are the things you're not aware of, you seem (like many people in these groups) very excited at the notion of paying tax in Thailand. I'm different. As I've been involved in property investment and sharemarket dealings, I've always looked for ways to minimise or avoid tax, which is perfectly legal. The tax laws in Thailand have numerous loopholes for expats. The easiest being the pre-2024 concession, followed by concessions in the DTA, as I've outlined above. I can of course also simply transfer either my pension (not taxable in Thailand), or only transfer income which has already been taxed at the higher level of 30%. It's not that difficult. The change in the laws are to target rich Thai people, not the lower end of the possible return. DTV holders, having no financial criteria to meet for visa purposes can simply bring in cash to avoid taxation. This would be well-known to tax authorities, but they're not interested in spending dollars to pick up dimes. However, those expats who are stupid enough to excitedly pay a "tax agent" baht or more to get their tax IDs and complete their returns, and then excitedly pay the 5000 baht they owe in tax can go ahead and do it! I think you'll find there will be thousands of expats who won't bother at all, and the tax office won't give a stuff, knowing full well there are too many loopholes to get through!

@Steve *******

I assume you've never taken professional advice on this at all, so you live in the land of supposition. Good luck if the tax man does come knocking.

@John *********

I've taken advice from TR and ATO. I'm not paying some shyster who will give advice to suit his pocket. No taxman will come knocking. This is Thailand. They'll have a lot of doors to knock on. I'm sorry if you're so frightened.

@Steve *******

do as you feel and wait for things to happen 🤣🤡

@Romain ***

Same advice to you. Nothing will "happen" to me, as I have zero assessable income coming into Thailand and the tax office makes that pretty clear

@Steve *******

what you say is totally wrong, go check official source online. Being registered doesn’t mean you have to pay tax. But if you stay over 6 months in 2024, you definitely need to file as a tax resident.

@Romain ***

I am tax resident in Thailand and have fined for years. However, I am living on savings for 2024. My tax advisor say not need to file a return this year. I am sure they would have been happy to take my money to compile the return if it was required.

@Romain ***

Official source states if a person has a tax liability, so if they don't, there's no reason to apply for a Tax ID. But you can if you want to. Many prefer to stay under the radar

@Chris **********

It's not 180 consecutive days you become a tax resident, It is 180 days or more in a calendar year.

@Ross *******

yeah you could technically do that on exemption though and you’d not be able to get a tax number still, so it remains very unclear.

@John *********

Exactly! "Assessable Income" being the key words! 👍👍

@Romain ***

He is, and so too are you, but heyho, you can do whatever you want! 😂

@Steve *******

the fact your income may have been taxed elsewhere is immaterial

@John *********

Not if a DTA exists. Do the research please!