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What are the personal income requirements and bond investment conditions for the LTR visa's wealthy pensioner category in Thailand?
LTR visaThailand visa requirementswealthy pensioner visapersonal income classificationThai bond investmentpassive incomeexpats in Thailand
Jul 24, 2024
2 years ago
Dayna ******************
ORIGINAL POSTERMy husband and I are looking at the LTR visa and wondering if any of you have this visa. I’m trying to get clarity for the wealthy pensioner category. I have 2 questions I can’t seem to get answers for.
1. One of the criteria is to show a personal income of 80,000 USD/year at the time of application. My question is what classifies as personal income? Is it my current W2 which includes my current job salary and investments?
2. If I have under 80,000 in personal income, I can also put 250,000 in a Thai bond. Do you know how long I have to keep it in a Thai bond? Is it the entire time we potentially stay as residents?
Thank you in advance!
1. One of the criteria is to show a personal income of 80,000 USD/year at the time of application. My question is what classifies as personal income? Is it my current W2 which includes my current job salary and investments?
2. If I have under 80,000 in personal income, I can also put 250,000 in a Thai bond. Do you know how long I have to keep it in a Thai bond? Is it the entire time we potentially stay as residents?
Thank you in advance!
TLDR : Answer Summary
The discussion revolves around the LTR (Long-Term Resident) visa, specifically the wealthy pensioner category. Two main questions were raised: 1) The definition of personal income, which must be passive, including pensions and investments—active income like salaries does not count; and 2) the conditions for bond investment, clarifying that a $250,000 investment in a Thai bond can substitute for the required income and must remain for five years, with periodic re-qualification by BOI after that period.
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Frank-Steven ***********
For the wealthy pensioner category, the income must be passive. If you still have active income from abroad, go with the "remote worker" LTR category instead. You would need at least USD 80k in active income, or only USD 40k if holding a masters degree or higher. Also, if married, only one of you would need to qualify for any LTR - the other one would be entitled as a spouse.
Jim ********
Forget the LTR - go for the DTV! Much better value and less criteria
Lena *******
@Jim *******
We are tossing up between the two. The DTV seems a bit confusing.Jim ********
@Lena ******
What's not confusing is you pay 10,000 baht for a five year multiple-entry visa, so you can leave and come back any number of times during that five years and each time get stamped in for 180 days.Todd *********
@Lena ******
there does need to be some clarification of DTV but that will appear soon enough i suppose. If you qualify for LTR, it's a bit of a no brainer. It's a strong visa. There is lots to like about DTV as it appears now, so go with the one that fits your circumstance bestReply to
Todd *********
Reply
Todd *********
@Jim *******
be reasonable Jim. Nobody that qualifies for LTR is going to even look at DTV. These are not comparable visas. The criteria for a retiree for LTR is $80k income. If you have it, LTR is a no brainer with zero hassles and tax exempt, as well as no reporting, not renewals. In your case, when you don't qualify, it's possible that DTV is a better solution for some people that retirement visas.Jolene ***************
@Todd ********
if my husband has our only income that will meet the requirement but he is not 50 and I am will they accept his income for my visa application? And then he would be given the spouse visa?Todd *********
@Jolene **************
unfortunately not. But when he turns 50, can apply on his own and then add you as spouse to his visa. Both visas cost 50k baht but only he needs to prove the $80k passive income. You would not need toReply to
Todd *********
Reply
Jim ********
@Todd ********
It's not a case of "not qualifying". The LTR criteria is easy to meet, it's only $80k "passive" per annum. The perks given to LTR holders are meaningless for many, so why spend 50k on a visa, when 10k will pull it up? There are no "renewals" with the DTV - it's a five year visa with multiple entries.Dayna ******************
ORIGINAL POSTER@Jim *******
what do you mean spending 50k on the visa? Another question is the DTV tax exempt?Jim ********
@Dayna *****************
LTR is 50,000 THB, the DTV is 10,000 THB. The DTV is not tax exempt, so you have to work out your own tax situationTodd *********
@Jim *******
It's ONLY a case of not qualifying. If you qualify it's a no brainer. It's a fairly high bar they set, i'm not sure why that is, but it is what it is. And if you wish to stay beyond 180 days in Thailand on DTV, you need an extension. The 'perks' are meaningful to anyone who would qualify. Tax exemption if you plan to reside here including money you bring in for a home or condo. Tax free global investments and you can exit your home country for tax purposes. That's not a 'perk', it's an integral planning structure for anyone with the income to qualify. Why spend 50k instead 20k+++ (depends on if you extend or not) for 10 years of multi entry? Because you don't need to exit every 180 days, you don't need to stand in line at the airport as you have FastTrack in and out. You never need to report to anyone if you leave annually. (which every LTR holder will likely do). DTV is a great visa for it's target audience of digital nomads regardless of age. But as a retirement visa, DTV is inferior in every way to LTR.Jim ********
@Todd ********
Yeah but for those retirees who travel a lot, there's no extensions required, you just bounce in and out whenever you travel. It all depends on the individual's situation. I only bring in money from a closed super account so I pay zero tax anyway, I don't need any further tax incentives in Thailand, and I'm sure there's many others. I certainly will never be buying any property in Thailand. I pump my money into Australian real estate which offers fabulous rental and capital returns. A week's rent from just one of my negatively-geared properties pays for six weeks rent here. Anyone can buy fast track at the airport for a few dollars, although I just flash my Aussie Government Seniors Card and get guided to the priority lane! The LTR might suit some, but for me, there's no competition - the DTV wins on all counts!Todd *********
@Jim *******
best of luck with your application then Jim. Hopefully i live long enough for a seniors card.Jim ********
@Todd ********
I don't think you're an Aussie so you won't get one! All Aussies over 50 get one! 😂😂😂Reply to
Jim ********
Reply
Mikhail *********
For this category, Income must be passive. Accepted types include pensions, rental income, dividends, royalties, and interest. ‘Active’ income, like wages or self-employment earnings, is not considered by the Board of Investment (BOI).
Todd *********
1. The $80k income must be passive. It cannot be from work activities. Pensions, Investments, dividends, interest, capital gains, rent etc. Passive income.
2. The investment must be made prior to application obviously. Once approved, its doesn’t matter again until the five year point when BOI will require you to ‘re-qualify’. But they have not yet clarified what that will entail
2. The investment must be made prior to application obviously. Once approved, its doesn’t matter again until the five year point when BOI will require you to ‘re-qualify’. But they have not yet clarified what that will entail
Dayna ******************
ORIGINAL POSTER@Todd ********
thanks! How do you show the passive income. What documentation do you provide?Marty *********
@Dayna *****************
I just submitted my US 1040 from the previous year.Dayna ******************
ORIGINAL POSTER@Marty ********
thanks but a 1099 doesn’t show your principal. Can you show your principal.Marty *********
@Dayna *****************
I assume by principle you mean savings? They want to see passive income. If you have interest income then submit those documents too. I just have a work pension and Social Security and that all shows up on my tax return.Dayna ******************
ORIGINAL POSTER@Marty ********
we are still in our 50s and wondering if we could show a savings account that covers the 80k.Todd *********
@Dayna *****************
savings accounts will not help. The principal is irrelevant for this application, but the income or dividends it throws off does countMarty *********
@Dayna *****************
No. They want to see income. Not savings.Dayna ******************
ORIGINAL POSTER@Marty ********
got it. Thank you again for the advice. Do you have details on the bond requirements? If we don’t have the 80k, we can invest 250k into a Thai bond but I can’t find information as to what types of bond and how long we have to hold the bonds.Marty *********
@Dayna *****************
I don’t know about bonds but if you are going to go that route the you also need $40,000/ year passive income.Reply to
Marty *********
Reply
Todd *********
@Dayna *****************
income statements, bank statements, rental agreement, pension statements, lease/rent agreement, tax returns…. Whatever you have for documentation that clearly demonstrates the $80k income. No need to show moreTodd *********
i'm not american, so not sure. But someone here will know. Also check on that LTR FB link that Tony provided. Someone there will definitely know
Dayna ******************
ORIGINAL POSTER@Todd ********
can you show a 401k statement?David ********
@Dayna *****************
They want to see the money you pulled out of the 401k. A 1099R or a tax return also does that - if it is a return for just yourself - not a joint returnReply to
David ********
Reply
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